Why free land is good for OpenSim

Will free land destroy grids?

There will probably a winnowing out of grids that continue to charge for residential land without offering enough additional perceived value.

But the end result will, I believe, a net benefit for OpenSim.

More money for content creators

Retail consumers have only so much money to spend on virtual activities. Every dollar spent on keeping a server running when nobody is using that region is a dollar not spent on content — clothing, accessories, furniture, buildings, virtual pets, club cover charges, and games.

Paying for unused servers is a tax on the growth of OpenSim — like sales taxes, or high oil prices.

Money spent on unused servers is money lost. And usually there are a few layers of resellers on top of that physical server — the OpenSim hosting company running OpenSim, the grid managers running the grid, and the land developer subdividing the land. They all take their cut for doing something unproductive.

That same money could instead be diverted to events, content, performers and other products and services that add value instead of just wasting energy.

With more money flowing to content producers, OpenSim grids will be better places to visit.

Free land on AVWorlds.

A sticky benefit for grid residents

If a resident has a free region, and has spent time, effort and money decorating it, that resident has an investment in the grid.

More than that, they have an investment in OpenSim — and something immediate to do when they get to the grid.

Consider a typical starting scenario — on a welcoming, user friendly grid:

Greeter: Hello! Welcome to Best Fun Ever Grid! Are you new? Can I help you with anything?

Newbie: I’m new. What am I supposed to do here?

Greeter: You can get some clothes in our freebie store.

Newbie: Uh huh.

Greeter: Then you can join one of our many wonderful communities! We have vampires, elves, cowboys, robots, furries, aliens…

Newbie gets some landmarks. Visits a couple of places. Doesn’t talk to anyone interesting. Leaves and never comes back again.

Now the same experience with a grid offering free land:

Greeter: Hello! Welcome to Best Fun Ever Grid! You look new! Why don’t you follow me to your new home….

Newbie: Um.. okay.

Greeter: We give everyone a free island here.

Newbie: Wow.

Greeter: The island will go away when you’re gone from it for over 15 minutes. But all you have to do is click on “Teleport Home” and it will be right here again. Meanwhile, if you look around, you can see by these islands next to you that some of your neighbors are home. Would you like me to to introduce you? You can fly out and visit them, right out over the open water, or take a boat. There’s a little dinghy tied up at your dock, but there are bigger boats available for sale at our sailing shops.

Newbie: So this is my house?

Greeter: Yes, it’s a freebie starter house. We have several shops on the mainland where you can get different houses — many are also free. You can also get furniture and landscaping.

Newbie: Can I have a store here?

Greeter: I’m sorry, but the land is zoned residential, so payments aren’t enabled. In any case, people can only visit while you are here. But you can rent store space on the mainland — we have a very busy shopping district. The landmarks are all in your inventory. Do you need help using it?

Newbie: No, that’s okay. Can I change the landscape?

Greeter: I’m sorry, but the free regions don’t support terraforming. If you like, you can upgrade to premium regions at any time, and you will have a choice of landscapes — or create your own. You will also be able to have more objects and scripts on your region.

By giving new residents a place to put their stuff, a place to create, a place to make unique and show off to others, a grid can set itself apart from others and really make an impact on new visitors.

It’s easy to walk away from a grid when you’re a casual user, not owning land, just the clothes in your inventory. It’s harder to walk away from a place you start thinking of as your virtual home.


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Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China. Follow me on Twitter @MariaKorolov.

41 Responses

  1. The FREE LAND in AvWorlds is designed to bring traffic and with that DEMAND for things will set in. That is the idea. Once demand for things is setting in the marketplace cycle starts. The free land has to have a certain handicap compared to the paid ones so it wont interfere with the paid land market. So far many people are settling in AvWorlds and demand for homes, clothes, furniture, hair, shoes, AOs, plants is growing! We already have a whole region being built to offer just that! As a result a creator from Inworldz and SL came to AvWorlds and is going to supply the demand for these things. Residents are buying the currency so the can buy what they need. The creator is now going to be making lots of money.

  2. Nick Zwart says:

    You are so right Maria. 3DLES gives their new educational clients one month of free use of a total region, including technical support. They can build, script, test whatever they want for 30 days. Totaly free.

    • frankjmizzi@hotmail.com' frank1963 says:

      What happens after 30 days, do you get the option for another 30 days or do you get no other option but to leave, as its a no win situation after 30 days and will need to pay a monthly fee and then pay to hold the land, this is the SL model of bisness (even if they don't have a 30 day period) still a user pays situation to be apart of someone elses idea of openess as to what opensim is.

      • nick@nixward.net' Nick Zwart says:

        @frank1963 3DLES gives the oportunity to EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTES to see if Opensim is the thing they realy want. So it is a trial periode. After that they have to pay the educational fee. Some institutes we have on our grid use the regions to rent them to schools (for a fee) as a RP area's, so the schools pay to these institutes that rent regions fro me. Why should we give the regions for free to them if they charge the schools?

  3. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi Maria,

    As AvWorlds has written about their "certain handicap" free land offering I think it is worth noting that at this time Kitely is providing users with an unlimited number of free, unhandicapped full regions each running on its own sim on top of a powerful server (up to 100,000 prims and 100 concurrent users per region). Our significantly more capable regions are running on a much bigger grid with many more registered users (see http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/statistics/july-… ).

    There are multiple regions already available on Kitely with a lot of free professional content for people to choose from. For example:

    There are also professional content creators that have set up shop in Kitely. For example:

  4. frankjmizzi@hotmail.com' frank1963 says:

    1 thing needs to be clarified, and that is that opensim is in no way something that anyone needs to pay another person to use, that is only if you have bought your own server space or are paying some how to connect to a virtual space, opensim was ment to be open and not a user pays device for others to gain money for a service

    One thing I have found is a lack of concise instructional help for people that are not rocket scientists and dont know how to impliment opensim to gain a standalone connection to the grid, and it needs to be said that opensim is in no way Vista friendly and that sq-light isnt that good for a user to have and needs to migrate to mysql is a head ache to most, when any first looks at opensim the words what the heck are mouthed without provacation from the user, lets face facts, when it comes down to it the SL engine is now to old and needs a well needed overhaul and probly needs a boot out the door,

    A 30 day free trial period will only be good for those ppl that dont know any better, and have no real interest in any form of opensim.

    • nick@nixward.net' Nick Zwart says:

      Frank, the ppl that rent sims on our grid pay for using it commercially. We have the servers and the technicians to have it all running smoothly, they pay rent for the server, for the backup every night, for the update to a newer version and for the technical support.
      They dont have to install anything, just start building and scripting. We provide the land. They rent a server where Opensim is on!
      You can use my car for free as long as you put gas in it. And gas is not for free either. Who else is going to pay for the server?

  5. Joe Builder says:

    @Ilan placing empty regions on Grids dont make your Grid better than any others. Your Grid has been up and running for some time, and to compare it to a brand new Grid isn't to smart on your part. Myself and a few others tryed to enter Kitely sometime back when I was in search of a stable grid and found Kitely very if not almost impossible to log into. The idea of having a Sim down while im away is nuts and charging a rate for friends to visit is even more nuts. I have held back making comments on Kitely but I see you have crossed the line with your above statement about Avworlds offering Free land is worth Nothing. In fact from what i have seen and visited AvWorlds has one if not the most stable Grid in opensims and with the Testing Sim of Bullet is a Plus to the Opensim community. Either be a Team player in Opensims or find another Team. Not everyone is a Duck remember that.

  6. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi Joe,

    Considering that Kitely continuously contributes code to OpenSim and has been hosting hundreds (now more than 1150) high prim count regions on powerful hardware for more than 5 months, not charging anyone for their own or their visitors usage, I find your comments about our "empty regions", insane cost or not being a team player quite uncalled for.

    I suggest you do a quick Google and Twitter search for "Kitely" to see what people have been building on Kitely and what they think of our future price structure. People use their region a certain amount of time per month, other people visit their region a certain amount of time per month. With most services you would need to pay a fixed cost per region regardless of how much usage your regions get. With Kitely you only pay for what you actually use. In most cases our way will wind up costing you a lot less. In addition, we will offer world managers the ability to require people who visit their worlds to cover their own access fees so hosting a popular high concurrency region on Kitely may wind up costing you less than hosting a fixed-cost bargain residential region in another grid.

    I don't know how long ago you tried accessing Kitely but the problems that prevented people who are wiling to log in using Facebook from doing so in the past have been resolved. I invite you to download the latest version of the Kitely Plugin and see for yourself. We will offer additional, non-Facebook, login options in the future.

    I haven't said AvWorld's free land offering is "worth nothing" as you accused me of doing, I quoted AvWorlds own worlds about their "free land has to have a certain handicap". He stated that they have people providing professional content on their grid and I stated that so do we. He said that their numbers are growing and I pointed out that so our ours (I didn't make unfounded claims I pointed to Maria's statistics). Two grid owners commented about their company's offerings before I decided it was prudent that I commented about Kitely's.

    You claiming that AvWorlds, a grid that uses unmodified OpenSim, is "the most stable grid in opensims" considering that other grids are running the same version of OpenSim is a bit biased I would say, especially from someone who claims others need to be team players. Your agenda is quite obvious.

  7. AvWorlds cannot offer 100000 prim regions with capacity of 100 avatars because we are interested in creating a well balanced inworld market. If we offer such a region our inworld land market will prevent any real estate company to have any chances of competing and making money.
    Maybe Kitely is not interested in providing such an economy to its residents but I have a strong belief that in order for a world to have progress and development; money is really important. Kitely is already probably offering its best and whats next? 200000 prim regions?
    Like I have always said in here. A virtual world needs to have a well balanced inworld economy. It needs to make money also. No money no development no future is secured. Thats what brings me to the next big problem. How long can a grid last by offering only FREE LAND? Plus paying for the servers!

    Another problem is that a complete free grid where the grid owner is the only one providing the regions with no money coming in would make me think twice about opening up business in such a grid. OSGRID has its residents provide their regions through each users computers so at least the cost is taking care of somewhat….

    AvWorlds offers a 4096 sqm lot, 375 prims free for all its residents and it also offers a 65536 sqm region with capacity for 6000 prims free for its premium residents.
    All this while also at the sametime providing a well balanced environment for our residents to be able to compete.
    We also offer our own currency and a currency exchange system where our residents can exchange their AV$s to real dollar amounts and even keep dollar amounts in their accounts.
    We also offer a grid environment where the regions are always ready to receive visitors without a 2,3,4,5 even 10 minutes wait while the region is being loaded by the cloud server (kitely).
    We offer a complete messaging system in our community forums where users can place , upload, watch videos, music, photos, blogs, events, video chat, chat , stores and alot more.

    We offer a well balanced grid economy that is the bottom line. And most important! MONEY is coming in and this should give our residents more security knowing that their lands are paid for and that the grid will not shut down for lack of funds one day.
    AvWorlds does not depend only on its funds in order to keep the grid up and running. That is the importance of not having only FREE FREE FREE…..

    Another thing is that it doesnt look good for maybe 70% of a grids regions to look all alike. No exclusivity.

    AvWorlds is well organized and balance. We have money coming in folks, we have innovation coming in, we have our own Open Sim Core Developer that is now working together with the INTEL guy who is working on the BULLET Physics Engine.
    Our OS version is 7.2 and have many more features that are not yet rolled out in the main OS source code.

  8. sargemisfit@gmail.com' sargemisfit says:

    Frank, I want to let you and other readers know that I am writing about just that, how to set up your own stand-alone and make it accessible to the general public. One caveat, I am using AuroraSim, but the techniques work for OpenSim, though with differences. And I am trying to address those differences as I write the articles. So far, I have written about using AuroraSim with SoaS (which comes with MySQL already configured), applying terrain and configuring the files.

  9. Joe Builder says:

    @Ilan I really don't want to go back and forth on this. But ill will copy/paste your words: "As AvWorlds has written about their "certain handicap" free land offering I think it is worth noting that at this time" No how does the normal reader take that statement?? And as Far as other Grids running the same version, I saw Wow you don't get out much seems majority run OS version is 7.1 with many bugs still not fixed. Maybe its because they haven't gotten around to fixing it who knows. But thats whats out there, Kitely is your baby I understand that, you can Promote it to no end thats fine, But never imply like you did about other Grids offering Free lands to stimulate a Community "Worth Nothing". Proof read what you write before hitting the Submit Button. and further more what is my agenda? you have no clue. Like I said earlier the "Worth Nothing" you said was my go button.

    • castcircle@aol.com' ghg says:

      You are writing "worth nothing." Ilan wrote "worth noting." I feel like your adding that letter "h" is changing the meaning of the discussion a whole lot. To "note" something means to "take note" or take something into consideration. If something is "worth noting" it can still be considered worth far more than being "worth nothing." (I realize many people involved speak many different languages, I just wanted to clarify that it seems like two different words are being used here.)

      • ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

        Thank you ghg for pointing that out to Joe.

        I didn't even consider that Joe thought I had a typo and intended to write off AvWorlds offering as worthless. Maybe I should use words that don't have a syntactic similarity to words some may find offensive. With Maria's international readership that may be a bit hard…

  10. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi AvWorlds,

    I wish you luck with your strategy and commend your developer's contribution to the Bullet module but I also think I should also point out that:

    – Kitely also uses OpenSim 0.7.2 (which is currently a release candidate).

    – Most people make some changes to their worlds even if they just use one of our templates or upload a publicly available OAR file.

    – Having several similar copies of a region on the same grid does not detract from those regions value to the people using them.

    – The more interesting regions on our grid are unique – some make use of MANY prims and scripts.

    – Even the most complex Kitely world currently takes less than 2 minutes to start. This was improved in the build we rolled out today and will improve further in the next few weeks as we optimize our system.

    – Kitely intelligently manages world servers in order to maintain a reasonable operations cost and reduce world startup times. An unexpected sudden spike in usage may result in slower world startup times but as we continue to develop our system the less likely that is to happen.

    – The value of land derives from the people using it. Providing very cheap high-prim-count high-concurrency regions doesn't mean people can't rent out parcels for a lot of money on popular worlds.

    – We, like everybody else, need money coming in to operate our business. The reason why we can currently continue to offer so many high-prim-count high-concurrency regions for free is that our proprietary cloud-based system enables us to reduce operations costs when possible.

  11. me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

    I'm not really understanding this article or the last one about free land. I think it would be wonderful for everyone to have free land everywhere (even in rl) but somebody somewhere has to pay for it. There are servers and maintainence. Someone does backups. I like giving away free things more than most people yet I think sometimes the "free" "give me give me" attitude goes a little too far. Grids that charge for land are also providing a service. They don't just give land have you maintain it and do the updates and backups. And even if they did doesn't someone somewhere have to pay for the server space?
    And a WHOLE ISLAND? I would agree that it would be nice for new vistors to get a little 512 lot of land that they can use for 30 days or so. That is more than enough. Why would a new person need a whole island?

    • nick@nixward.net' Nick Zwart says:

      Linda, that is so kind of you to say. What is wrong with charging for a whole island? But I can promise, when we have found a way to have a free server, free backups and free technician, we will give our land away! For free. Thank you Linda.
      Nick – 3DLES

  12. me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

    I've been playing on OSGrid and it's nice that people can hook up their sims there and the stuff around the grid is free. But there is something to be said for closed grids that charge and have commerce. There is some things that are just worth paying for. And the customer service and tech support and maintainence for land is one of them in my opinion.

    Of course everyone is going to love your grid if you give them free stuff. Free land will bring tons of people to your grid. And the grid owner will get to spend hours and hours working the grid for no pay. Not a very good business stratagy I would think.

  13. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi Linda,

    First, I wish to thank you for the great contribution you have, and continue, to make to OpenSim with your professional free content. I'll be happy to give you 20,000 KC if you agreed to upload your regions to Kitely under your own name so that people getting content from your shops will have the correct creator information. As it currently stands, I point people to Maria's copies of your OAR files. This way you'll be able to host as many high concurrency regions as you want at the same time, make clones, export them as OARs files etc.

    Kitely is currently providing its service for free as it is in beta and we wish to iron out the kinks in our cloud-based service before we start charging people. That said, I agree with you completely and OpenSim hosting costs currently prevent providing free regions to an unlimited number of people. Our future per-minute billing is intended to be cheap but it still needs to cover our operations costs.

    • me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:


      I am really OK with other people showing as creator of my stuff. But thank you for your offer. I have an account set up for your grid and will visit it from time to time.

      I get the whole free land while in beta thing. And I think it's wonderful that you are providing that. I also understand the small free land parcels that other grids give out as a promotional tool to get people in to experence their grid in the hopes that they will like it and stay and bring their friends.

      But the big picture just shows that at some point someone has to pay because even though you are working for free now it would be insane for people to expect you to always do that. This is why SL calls tier (maintenance fee). Someone is in the background of this company running things. Although I think that the cost of land in SL is way over what it needs to be (just my opinion).

      • Linda — When the price of land gets low enough, it makes more sense to offer it for free, and make up the difference in other ways (advertising revenues, currency sales, retail shops). Most of the consumer-focused web-based virtual worlds already offer their users free personal rooms. Google's Lively gave away land plots before Google decided it wasn't in the social game business.

        What I'm saying is that it will happen. Probably soon, rather than later. And grids need to be ready for this.

        Meanwhile, for content creators, this is all a good thing — all the money people currently spend on tier, they will be spending on content, instead.

        And as more people are attracted by low-cost or free land and join up, the more revenues the grids will have from the ancillary revenue streams, the more money they can invest in streamlining the infrastructure — and drive the price even lower.

        Eventually, I believe we'll have something like what we've got now with webhosting. You can have unlimited space with a hosted service (like Blogger or Facebook or whoever) but you're stuck with their limitations — a small choice of templates, limits on visitors, no commerce, no scripts, no exports, or whatever the limits on free land will be. And if you want more control, then instead of hosting your own website (and doing whatever you want with it), you'd just host your own grid — and you'll pay a fixed price every month, and get unlimited regions (and pay extra for traffic) or unlimited regions and unlimited traffic, but pay extra for processing. After all, storage is cheap — pretty much all the Web hosting companies are already offering unlimited storage.

        It's good for consumers. It's good for creators. I believe it will be very good for grid owners (who are smart enough to get out ahead of the trend). It will be bad for land reselers — unless they figure out a way to add value to the land that's worth paying extra for.

        • me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

          I'm sorry but I disagree. I don't think it is good for the consumers the creators and especially the grid owners. When I started in SL in 2005 I was given a 512 lot for the price of 512 lindens. It was the practice at the time for premium account holders. That little lot spured me on. I wanted more land so I started designing and selling things for money to get more land. And soon I bought a sim and then two. It was my modivation to create. And I don't know how a grid gets their servers free to be able to do what you are suggesting. Unless these grid owners are rich and/or they have some sort of server company that they own I just don't see it. Don't they have to pay to rent the server space that the sims are housed on? Maybe I am not understanding this. But somehow, somewhere, somebody pays. There is really no such thing as free. Someone has to put in the work or the money. Asking Grid owners to pay for the servers and donate their time doing backups etc. just seems wrong.

          • Linda — Servers are getting cheaper all the time. Nova makes a profit with $5.95 regions of 45,000 prims each.

            On the web, Blogger and Facebook are profitable even though they give away Webspace. Farmville is profitable even though it gives away virtual farms. Yes, it costs money for Farmville to run all their servers. But they make it back — and then some — by selling all the add-ons.

            People will still be inspired to create. Maybe not to pay for their basic residential land, but to upgrade to premium land, or to buy virtual pets, or whatever else it is that they want in the worlds.

            But at the end of the day, it's all a moot point because prices are falling dramatically — and on a daily basis, it seems. As soon as land is so cheap that grids can cover the cost by selling currency, or memberships, or premium land for club owners and businesses — then its more profitable to give away the residential plots for free, because it brings in residents who will buy the currency, the memberships, or the stuff the retailers are selling.

            And that means more customers for the designers and the creators.

          • me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

            Facebook and others make money through advertising among other things. Still lets say that a grid gets 100 new members in a weekend. Who is putting up the 100 new islands for them and setting it to their name? Who pays for that server space? How do grids who don't charge for uploads or premium memberships make money to pay the people to do this maintenance? Even if the servers were free someone has to do the work. The currency they buy and sell isn't theirs. Unless they take a cut like SL does. Sure content creators will make money. If they don't have to pay for land it's total profit for content creators. But then what modivates them to put that money back into the grid? SL is still charging a ton for their private islands. So opensim grids charging enough to just make a small profit doesn't seem that awful to me. I think you are wrong if you actually believe that this free land thing will take place.
            I like you and I enjoy your articles. I think they give us all something to think about. But on this I do no agree with you at all. The people who work the grid deserve to get paid.

          • lmpierce@alcancemas.com' Lawrence Pierce says:

            Nicely said. Large companies can approach growth on terms not feasible for small companies.

  14. Joe Builder says:

    I agree somewhat in Linda's Responce Free is very good But in moderation. It brings incentive for creators to supply these Free lands with Landscaping, Furniture and all that goes with a small free parcel even a Home. So basically keep the promtional lands free and charge a fair price for a smooth running region at a fair price for the creators. This is just one way of jump starting a growing economy inworld. Even SL had to start somewhere with there Economy to get where they are today. And there are some people who enjoy working 7days a week 13hr days in Virtual worlds I`m one of them 🙂

  15. me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

    I have read and reread this and I cannot understand this train of thought. Land sales is where most grids make their money. You talk about free webspace and such. Well people can have free sims as well if they want to host their own and connect to osgrid or nova or something. But if you want someone else to host it for you you need to pay for it. Just as I host my website through godaddy.com and I pay for that.
    Even Nova charges for them to host for you. Even a small amount is something. Expecting it free is just so totally wrong.
    And if you say it can be done then why isn't everyone doing it? Why aren't you doing it? Could you give us free land? I mean where do you get free server space to do that?

  16. nick@nixward.net' Nick Zwart says:

    this was a great discussion. Interesting to read what others think of it. Thanks.
    Nick – 3DLES

  17. AvWorlds has money coming in and all we can say is that we can secure and provide a financely stable grid where people can be certain it wont just stop existing for lack of money.
    Free everything like I always said here is not the best way to go. Offering some free promotional land its the best and the grid can still make money from these free lands!
    I am not saying that AvWorlds is the best but at least we are not going to be giving out our BEST for free. Its just bad business.

  18. Another point Kitely you mentioned that you cant continue to offer the free regions you are now offering. AvWorlds free regions is forever!

    • me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

      Your website states that your free regions are for premium members. Is there a charge to be a premium member? Because if so they aren't really "free forever" are they? I think the statement you make is just a bit misleading.

  19. AvWorlds has placed a free land program inworld that was well thought about and its not going to end. This program is set for life. The free lands are free for life. Now if people want better prim amounts and space they need to pay for them. That is how its done.
    If you offer your best for free it will come back and bite you on your butt eventually. You wont be able to sustain that type of activity for long and when you do have to charge the people who got these best regions will complain and some will even leave the grid.
    Its best to offer a lower quality product as a promotion and keep it forever or even a long time and when its time to pull if off; people will not feel it too much. The grid will not suffer either.

    Like Kitely's CEO mentioned his got the best beinf offered free. So far no exclusity has settled in and I am sure once he starts charging money alot of people will leave. Another problem using CLOUD servers for OPEN SIM or any virtual reality code is that the cloud servers once a region has been requested to be visited it needs to start that same region, load all contents, load all the inventories etc and that takes a long long time compared to a regular hosted region in a regular powerful server that is holding that region up 24/7.
    The region is already there and people do not need to wait 10-15 minutes for it to be started by the cloud server. Which is happening now in KITELY. I did a test myself and I couldnt wait anylonger for the region to start. It was alread 10 minutes waiting for it.

    AvWorlds regions are there! They are up and running ready for anyone to visit in less than 5 seconds! All contents are already loaded and the server is working.

    Another comparison is that our 24000 region, 40 users capacity only charges you 6 cents per day! And its there for everyone to see, visit and enjoy 24/7.

  20. A region on demand system does not work. The reason is because the server everytime it has to pull a region up it will have to load the region, load the contents, load the inventories and load all the users for that reagion. That will take a long long time. Kitely's CEO is saying now it only takes 2 minutes of less. Still a long time and when the 100000 prims are fully used people will still wait long long…Its just not a way out of that.
    And if its not taking 10 minutes to login anymore it means that some of the content the cloud server needs to pull up to upload the full region is already being pulled 24/7. That means Kitely is now spending money in order to keep these certain files up and ready for any visitor to come in and not have to wait a full 10 or 15 minutes to login inworld.
    So I dont know I may be wrong but logic tells me that the cloud service is not a good idea for virtual worlds.
    And now in order to make the login process easier and less time consuming it must have certain files up and running 24/7 and that cuts the idea of cloud hosting.

    Anyway. I dont want to bring down negative things here. But I was called on it. Kitely said my strategy is the same as nothing. I guess we can see it on the long run. I have all the time to wait.

    • me@lindakellie.com' Linda Kellie says:

      I thought this was a topic on free regions and not on who has the best grid AvWorlds or Kitely. I understand Kitely's position totally with giving regions free while he gets things fuctioning the way he wants. It's like saying "you can have it free but you will have to endure all of the issues while I work on it". Once it is up to his standards then asking people to pay is more than appropriate I think. Basically "You get what you pay for".
      I think a good grid can stand on their own merit without compairing how they are better than another grid. Just Sayin.

  21. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi AvWorlds,

    Our highest prim-count worlds (more than 50K prims) with the most scripts (more than 1500) usually take less than 2 minutes to load (unexpected system load can increase world start times but that is becoming less frequent as our algorithms are optimized). Most regions take around 30 seconds to start. Once a region is started it is available immediately for everyone else who tries to access it. We are currently working on reducing those numbers even further.

    The reason our system doesn’t take the 10-15 minutes you think it should is because our proprietary system (which is more than 100K lines of code) speeds things up significantly. Your claim that there isn’t a way to do this with standard OpenSim may be true but with our system we can, and do, get very complex worlds to start in less than 2 minutes. Just for reference, some worlds which used to take more than 5 minutes to load a few months ago now load in less than 45 seconds and we have many more optimizations to implement before we run out of ways to speed things up.

    What we are offering now is far from our best offer, it is our starting offer with existing OpenSim technology and the current beta stage of our cloud based system. When we start charging, people will be able to compare what they can get at Kitely verses what they can get in other places and make up their mind whether they want to pay for our service or for someone else’s. I can assure you that when most people do their math and consider how much things will cost them on Kitely verses other commercial grids, our service will not lose their business over price.

  22. Joe Builder says:

    Well very interesting Debate here. I would say Regions will load as fast as your viewer will allow it. Opensims has a huge issue in what they refer to as Viewer Lag, Also lets not forget high end Gaming Computers which not many have. 1 person may say it took me 10 min to login or My sim is taking a long time to rezz up, Yes very true lot of things to consider again Viewer lag or your PC ability. So its a tough call to claim things are up and running in 40sec/1min/2min depends on what any given person is using at the time, (PC) (Viewer).

    And the thing with I got better than yours is how we do things with a smile in RL or Virtual. At the end of the day we are all friends looking to obtain the same goal.

  23. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Hi Joe,

    My claims regarding world startup times on Kitely relate to how long it takes a world that was previously in storage to be ready for users to start entering it. Once that is done, a world that is hosted on Kitely will rezz in people's viewers as fast as their internet connection and computer hardware allow.

    Some complex worlds can take a long time to fully download and rezz up. For example, a 200MB world, which is not as rare as you may think, will take 200 seconds for someone with an 8mbit broadband connection to download and most people's internet connections are far slower. While a viewer is using all the computer's available bandwidth to download assets the user will experience lag.

    Virtual world architectures which do not stream assets while the world is viewed require people to wait a long time for everything to download before they are able to start viewing the world they wish to access. OpenSim viewers may have lag while things download but having it is better, in my opinion, than having people wait for about the same amount of time without being able to view the world at all. That said, there are ways to reduce viewer lag and I agree they should be implemented so that people will have a better experience while using OpenSim.

    Finally, I agree with you that we are all working towards the same goal of improving OpenSim and it is best to avoid throwing dirt at each other 🙂

  24. Hi Ilan from Kitely.
    I am not here to put your project down. Its your baby and I do have mine also. I wish you luck and that you can keep up with your new ideas for this new platform. I know how it is when someone puts my baby down so I dont want to really do that to you.
    Best of luck and success!

  25. ilan@kitely.com' Ilan Tochner says:

    Thank you AvWorlds, good luck with your business as well 🙂

  26. @iliveisl says:

    i am, for the most part, against free land unless you just have the "extra" resources for some reason. free spaces like clubs, art galleries, and "community" spots like sandboxes are an added value for someone wanting to check you out

    i think free space is valued as mostly just that – not worth anything

    i don't think it is the grid operators job to make a space to let people explore what virtual worlds are (they can if they want to, but i don't think it is mandatory – no more so than Toyota giving me a free car for a month to see if i might like to buy one)

    i think that type of initial exploration is done via some research and an initial assessement of whether VWs may match their needs. if someone really needs to get more in-depth, there are some free resources (ie, SoaS for PCs or the real install of OS)

    people will take you up on "free" all day long but serious people will see the value and understand that it costs something

  27. Yes that is why AvWorlds is not offering its best for free. Free cannot be the best or a super quality product. It has to be free sample type of product. And at the sametime our free lands come with a price tag believe it or not.
    In order to get a free region in AvWorlds the user needs to hold a premium account. Our premium accounts are charged monthly, quarterly, every six months or year.
    We do offer also a free small 4096 sqm parcel that holds 375 prims for all our residents interested. That is in order to start a community which is essential for any grid.
    The reason SL is still the top grid is because it has a huge community! With a huge community present in the grid it creates demand for things (inventory). Attracting creators into the grid.

    Note that AvWorlds is offering free land but at the sametime it is making sure that it will not affect the private sector in its land market.
    Private businesses will be able to offer land with more quality and prims availability. That is the importance.

    Another factor is that in order to own land in AvWorlds the resident must be a premium holder. Making it not possible for everyone to own land.
    A grid where everyone can get land does not have a well balanced land market. It must have the land market and the parcels market.

    We at AvWorlds have thought about all this.
    We are expected to one private land business to open up its doors in AvWorlds very soon.