InWorldz offers inventory backups to residents

In the wake of a massive data loss and ensuing grid shut down at What Virtual World, InWorldz announced yesterday that it will begin offering encrypted inventory backups to its residents.

The two events were not connected, InWorldz CTO David Daeschler told Hypergrid Business. He is also known as Tranquillity Dexler in-world.

David Daeschler

“The downloadable inventory backup files are something we’ve talked about with our customers as well as internally for a long time,” he said. “We’ve just finally gotten the time to complete the project.”

The InWorldz inventory exports are not to be confused with the IAR inventory archive files available elsewhere to OpenSim users. An IAR is a standard file that can be used to move content between grids. Some creators — including Linda Kellie and the users of OpenSim Creations — also use IAR downloads as a way to distribute content.

Instead, the InWorldz inventory export is a file specific to InWorldz and does not contain any assets.

“It is an encrypted, structure only dump of inventory to be used by InWorldz support and future tools that will be available on the InWorldz website for inventory management,” said Daeschler. “These files are not for use on other grids and don’t have all the data in them that would be required to use them in this manner.”

What the inventory backup file does is point to the assets, which are backed up separately.

If a resident accidentally deletes items from their inventory, or a viewer bug causes the items to disappear, the resident will be able to use the inventory backup file to get those items restored.

“You can never have enough backups,” Daeschler said.

He added that more import and export functionality will be added in the future, but declined to provide any details.

InWorldz recently rolled out its proprietary PhysX physics engine. (Image courtesy InWorldz.)

Redundant backups

According to Daeschler, InWorldz currently has around 6 terabytes of asset data, which is stored in seven different servers.

The servers are backed up continually, he said. If a single server goes down, there would be no loss of data, and users wouldn’t see any interruption in performance. In fact, two servers in each set of three can go down without any loss of data.

“All of the nodes in the cluster are also snapshotted regularly to recover in the event of a software malfunction that corrupts data,” he added.

There is also a separate set of backups for the regions themselves. These are automatic daily backups that generate a file similar to the standard OAR region archive, but customized to account for InWorldz physics and script state data.

“These files are stored for seven days, and our residents can choose to roll back to any previously available date,” said Daeschler.

Finally, the region data databases are also backed up, and the grid’s core data is both backed up and replicated.

Replication and backups serve two different purposes.

Replication works well to deal with hardware issues, since it provides an up-to-date, perfect copy of all the data.

But replication is not as useful if the data is corrupted or intentionally deleted, since the corruption or deletion will be replicated as well.

Good backups are important for any grid or hosting company, but are especially important for closed grids, where users are typically not allowed to make their own copies of their regions or avatar inventories in order to keep in-world content from being illegally copied.

Open grids, which allow users to connect their own regions and allow access to OpenSim region server consoles, also allow full export of regions and user inventories. Some hosting providers, such as Dreamland Metaverse, have these export options built into their region management consoles.

Other grids, such as Kitely, have begun experimenting with filtered exports. For example, since August 2011, Kitely has been allowing users to save content that they have created, or have copy and transfer permissions for, or that were specifically labeled as exportable by their creators. Kitely has donated this filtering code to the OpenSim community.

“We’ll be improving on the content protection system we already have in place once we add an ‘Export’ flag to content that will be sold via the upcoming Kitely Market,” Kitely CEO Ilan Tochner told Hypergrid Business.

Tochner also added that Kitely has plenty of internal backups and redundant systems, as well. “All Kitely data is stored in Amazon’s S3 cloud-based storage, meaning it is saved in multiple data centers around the world so even if multiple data centers are completely destroyed in some cataclysmic event the data should remain accessible. In addition, we save system  snapshots daily — retaining them for up to two weeks — so that we can revert the system, or a particular world [region or megaregion], to a previous state in case something bad happens to it.”

Eventually, standard OpenSim distributions and OpenSim-focused viewers may all support a fourth permission flag to the current set of “Copy,” “Transfer” and “Modify.” This fourth permission, “Export,” would allow users to save copies of content to their local hard drives, or to take it with them when traveling to other grids via hypergrid teleport.

However, even if other commercial grids adopt filtered exports, there will still be a need for a system like what InWorldz is offering, which allows residents to back up even protected, no-copy items.

Last updated by at .

maria@hypergridbusiness.com'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China.

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  • hack13

    What it sounds like InWorldz is doing is a good practice for people of other grids as well. IAR’s support saving your inventory, without the assets, with just the hooks. Meaning in simple terms: Restoring your inventory on a grid to a prevous date in time using the noassets function in saving the IAR. That means it will only be usable on the grid you saved the IAR at. Here is how to do it:

    save iar –noassets /

    That save ONLY THE HOOKS nothing else. Meaning you will only be able to use it on the grid you saved it from.

    • http://tarber.net/ Jim Tarber

      Absolutely. Those running open grids (where security of inventory is not important) can and should most definitely use IARs to make backups. (I wouldn’t skip storing the assets though, because those grids aren’t likely to have anything as reliable as the scalable asset servers InWorldz developed, nor managed professionally on enterprise-grade storage.)

      • SnootsDwagon

        Bingo. Could not have said it better.

        That the point. It been said before: Inworldz totally re-wrote the asset server system, inventory system, scripting system and much more. When system stability is mentioned, that’s exactly what’s being discussed.

  • Lani Global

    Q: When is a backup not a backup?
    A: When its encrypted and you don’t get the key.
    A: When you can’t check the file.
    A: When its not portable.

    • ELQ

      You can already backup your stuff in InWorldz, no need for another. This is awesome, it allows you to get a “personal rollback” just in case!

      • SnootsDwagon

        Ty for making that point ELQ. While I agree to an extent to the points Lani is making… one cannot have a secure grid and fully open backup at the same time.

        Solution: If ya don’t want a secure grid… don’t use it. If the grid is gonna be secure– the backups are gonna have to be secure too.

        Q: When is a secure backup done right?

        A: When it’s encrypted. It’s encrypted because it’s secure and as a merchant– I definitely don’t want users having the encryption key to my creations.
        A: When you don’t have to check the file because that work has already been done by the people you pay to do it.
        A: When the grid you use is so unique and powerful portability becomes irrelevant.

    • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

      nods @ Lani..and HI!!

      Personally, I see this as non-news. Throwing a bone @ some that is really only a tease of what we all can easily do in our consoles in the rest of opensim.

      They could have allowed portable backups by simply adding proper switches [tho of course they would have to write that in themselves]. I would love to have some items from there in opensim, but, my inventory I spent good money on over a couple of years is held hostage. Thank goodness most of us don’t waste our money anymore with such.

      However, in fairness, it IS a step in the right direction for a closed grid, tho many steps ahead to go and not really all that much. But I did mine [only took a few seconds], what the heck, eh???? lol

      nods @ Harriet…

      I am so very happy I found the free metaverse!!!!

      • Linda

        I agree that it is non-news. I would have assumed this had been going on all along.

        Maria and I always have a different view of what actual “news” is.

        • SnootsDwagon

          With all respect for eberone…this is where real knowledge of the history of VR comes in handy.

          To this day Second Life does not offer inventory backup of any kind. You lose your inventory– you’re sunk. This has been an issue of complaint by SL users for years.

          Inworldz has always kept strategic backup. What they’re doing here is offering users the extra peace-of-mind of having inventory records on their own systems… a sort of a backup of a backup. As the devs say, “Can never have too many backups.”

          As far as this being non-news… wot? Inworldz has more active users than any grid outside of SL… and also is the most profitable grid outside of SL. So how is anything that happens to SL’s biggest potential competitor “non-news”?

          Or is this blogsite dedicated strictly to OpenSim and all other VR grid information isn’t needed? Someone recently mentioned the need for Metaverse users to not be ignorant. The only way to accomplish that… is to be informed.

          It’s news.

          • Linda

            If you read the rest of my replies here you will see that I wasn’t understanding the whole thing and later I state that it is news. I didn’t understand that type of backup they were talking about.

            It’s not of any major interest to me but for sure I applaud that grid for doing this along with all of the other forward thinking things they have managed to accomplish over the years.

          • SnootsDwagon

            Yeah, I later notices. I still not used to this type of reply format here. No offense intendeds. : )

      • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

        actually [and i will comment to myself even tho I only play one avatar with one personality, unlike others...lol]

        this is really an unimportant side note I just wanted to make a moment to post here…but I recently decided I am just to busy with other things in virtuals, some just so cool I am not sure how I got involved..lol…that I finally left two unimportant facets of it, and will no longer log into those grids and noted it in my profile for the one or two that may notice…lol

        inworldz and island oasis grids just do not warrant even my small time I was doing in them anyways…

        and really, even the few obvious sycophants and their obvious attempts to demean me, are of such unimportance why should I bother, I asked myself, and myself said, yes, why should you? so myself said, then don’t, so myself said, ok-))

        I will still keep an eye on this website and post occasionally, but I will not know what is going on with those two grids other than if I notice something here-))

        So, a win-win!! yeaaaa!!!

        The free metaverse is just plain awesome, and I am happy to be a part of it!!!

        • Linda

          I have a lot of different avatars. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Also I don’t know what that has to do with the topic here.

          • SnootsDwagon

            Minethere: ” [and i will comment to myself even tho I only play one avatar with one personality, unlike others...lol]”

            LInda: “I have a lot of different avatars. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Also I don’t know what that has to do with the topic here.”

            I agree Linda. The “everyone should only have one avatar” tirade gets old. Most people who know me know who my alts are, and I make it a rule to avoid posting with two identities in the same forum. That’s all that’s really expected of anyone, I think.

  • Harriet Inglewood

    It’s interesting to me that encrypted inventory backups had a higher priority for them than any of the missing features residents have waiting for. They must not be very confident in their current hosting service. Maybe they should have stayed with CariNet… what ever happened to that joint venture with CariNet anyway?

    • Linda

      I was wondering what happened with the CariNet thing as well. I just assume that maybe they outgrew CariNet. I never heard them say a bad thing about CariNet so I don’t think it had to do with that. Sometimes businesses just grow enough where they don’t need to partner with an outside source. So maybe (just guessing here) their contract was up with them and they decided to not renew. I don’t think there is anything weird about them changing at all. I think we would have heard something if there had been.
      Also backups are always good because after all things can go wrong no matter what. I know that I back up my OARs all the time. And I’m really lucky to be using AuroraSim now and having the automatic backups.

      I agree that IW should be working on some simple things that their residents want. But I guess they are doing things in the order that they are able.

      I would hate to be a grid owner and have to deal with the huge laundry list of what people want. :)

      • SnootsDwagon

        Yesh, was on the Inworldz forums. The new server company is bigger and more international… which allows Inworldz to function both on a better budget and faster for out-of-US users. It simply out-grew CariNet. Just like someday I’ll need bigger cookies. :D

        • Linda

          Ah, I don’t read the InWorldz forum so I never saw that. I wasn’t even reading this website for awhile.
          I wish that grids that make major changes like that would always put out a press release here or at Grid-Press.com so that the general public could know about it (like this one that we are commenting on). Most people do not read forum’s of grids they don’t belong to. But then again….. I guess if we are not on that grid then we don’t need to know the news. It’s always fun to learn things though. :)

          • SnootsDwagon

            I couldn’t agree more. In fact we were just discussing on the forums last night that some announcements need to be made grid-wide or on the splash page. A news release would be good too. But in truth, I think they’re up to their necks in projects and at this time in the process… things just fall to the wayside.

            What I do is log on to the Inworldz Forums daily and click the VIEW NEW POSTS option. It’s a good way to scan if anything important needs to be read. But that does take some time and I don’t think that the best way to be informed of grid-shaking news. ; )

          • Linda

            Maybe they need a good PR person who can make sure their news gets out to people beyond their normal user base. (you should volunteer).

            All grids should, actually. There are grids out there that have been around for over a year and I have just now heard about them.

            I know that Maria likes to get new releases sent to her and if she finds it newsworthy and fitting of her website here she will post it.

            And I know that Sarge Misfit of Grid-Press.com does the same thing.

            I don’t have the time (or interest) in sorting through all the jibber jabber (and sometimes drama) on grid forum’s to find the things of interest to me unless I am an active part of that grid…. then I read everything. :)

          • SnootsDwagon

            Linda: “Maybe they need a good PR person who can make sure their news gets out to people beyond their normal user base. (you should volunteer).”

            Nuuuuuuu. No more on plate! I already losing scales running ragged. ;D

            Now if I was paid cookies…

    • http://tarber.net/ Jim Tarber

      The problem is that users make mistakes and empty the trash. InWorldz has lost a lot of time tracking down user errors and viewer problems. It was faster to provide this than to continue to support investigations into lost items that yielded no bugs in the highly-scalable, highly-reliable, NoSQL Apache Cassandra-based inventory that InWorldz has now deployed. It was a fairly (<1 week) work item for one developer that will save the time on many future investigations.

      InWorldz simply outgrew the CariNet partnership. At the scale of InWorldz, it was more affordable and made more enterprise management sense to deploy on an industry leader like Rackspace, which offered even better pricing, allowing InWorldz to put more money into staffing full-time developers and other expenses that will directly benefit the residents.

    • SnootsDwagon

      Harriet, question: what would you consider as having higher priority than inventory backup?

      • Harriet Inglewood

        Read my post. 5 days ago I said:

        “It’s interesting to me that encrypted inventory backups had a higher
        priority for them than any of the missing features residents have
        waiting for. They must not be very confident in their current hosting
        service.”

        Yesterday, Tue Feb 26, 2013 Tranq reported:

        “Some regions may be down or malfunctioning. We are currently experiencing hardware problems on a region data host.”

        The problem they experienced with the region data host justified their concern and the need for multiple redundant inventory backups.

        To answer your question, on a grid as unstable as InWorldz, running on questionable hardware, nothing is as important as inventory backups. They acknowledged the same thing by giving it priority.

        • SnootsDwagon

          Harriet: “…on a grid as unstable as InWorldz, running on questionable hardware…”

          Surely no one expects a system to run 24/7/365 with zero glitches? Especially in grids that are still in development stage?

          A core CPU went out and needed replaced. It was that simple. Had nothing to do with stability or data. Sometimes CPUs go bad, even on the best systems.

          Second Life used to have asset server failures on a monthly basis. They lost the original Ahern due to lack of maintaining proper backups. Inworldz experienced a simple issue that they located and fixed immediately. For the record, they had it back up and running in less than 28 minutes.

          How many times has OpenSim or OSgrid had issues with asset servers? Stuff happens. To claim that Inworldz is “unstable” because they’ve had one single CPU failure in what… four years?… is unrealistic. I wonder how many CPUs are employed in a grid like Inworldz? Gotta be a bunch. Eventually one of them is gonna burn out.

          They were back up and running in 28 minutes with zero data loss. That’s on a relatively new server system that they’re still getting up to speed on. My guess is that showed them a chink in the armor that they can fix for the future.

          Now if we want to talk about stability– I experienced inventory glitches within 2 hours of installing Sim on a Stick. Now THAT is unstable.

          • Harriet Inglewood

            Read my post. I said:

            “The problem they experienced with the region data host justified their concern and the need for multiple redundant inventory backups.”

            I never claimed that a CPU failure is the sole reason for their instability – the problem goes much deeper than that. They are still trying to fix things have already been fixed in subsequent OS revisions since they forked. They are trying to do what a team of people have already done. InWorldz is not only trailing in features but stability as well.

            If you need specific examples of what is not working in InWorldz that works in the current revision of OS then I can site various examples from their forums and Mantis reports. This would certainly prove my point but would cause further embarrassment for yourself and your grid.

            You said: “Success envy, much? ; )”

            Why would anyone be envious of paying so much for so little?

          • SnootsDwagon

            Harriet: ” This would certainly prove my point but would cause further embarrassment for yourself and your grid… Why would anyone be envious of paying so much for so little?”

            Very blut post Harriet, so I’m gonna be as blunt as you are… although maybe a bit more factual and realistic.

            Why would anyone be envious? Evidently because Inworldz is stealing OpenSim’s thunder and some people don’t like that. It’s basically success envy– a very common trait. There’s no denying the reality of Inworldz’ popularity– the stats are pretty clear– and some folks just hate that. It’s obvious from their posts.

            Harriet, I’ve used OpenSim. I’ve installed and tested Sim on a Stick. I know how the platform performs. I’ve tested it… and in my experience it doesn’t even come close to matching Inworldz’ performance, either in stability or speed. If OpenSim worked well, our group would have chosen OpenSim instead of Inworldz. The fact that we and hundreds of others are willing to pay for Inworldz instead of using a free piece of software is strong indication it has things to offer that OpenSim doesn’t.

            I’m not knocking OpenSim. OpenSim is great for those who need free sims. It offers opportunity for sim ownership to folks who otherwise may never enjoy that experience. For that alone, it gets two thumbs up from me. But OpenSim is developed by a non-prioritized volunteer base that has exhibited lack of focus on core system stability. That shows in system function and severe lag.

            Conversely, Inworldz was/is developed by a professional company with paid coding staff and focuses intently on foundation and stability. They do so because people pay money to use Inworldz; they expect a bit more than they’d get from free software.

            Obviously our group finds the power and stability of Inworldz to be worth paying for. Personally, I believe in the potential of Inworldz and that it will grow much faster than OpenSim. I believe the day will come when Inworldz out-stripes all OpenSim grids put together. Considering current stats… I don’t think that’s too far fetched a concept.

            When a grid charges for sims and is still successful, that’s a matter of note. When grids have trouble giving away free product… downgrading Inworldz as “inferior” strikes me as bogus claims.

            You would cause me no embarrassment by citing valid and truthful instances of serious problems with Inworldz. I would probably even agree with some of the claims. But the truth of the matter is that every grid has its strengths and weaknesses… and for every supposed instance that you could show me of OpenSim fixing something Inworldz hasn’t (if such claim proved to even be true)… I could show you something that Inworldz has fixed that OpenSim hasn’t.

            That seems to me a rather silly and pointless game to play.

            Inworldz has spent most of its time working on core foundation and stability rather than toys and individual features. It’s been said before: people insisting Inworldz maintain compatibility with OpenSim simply don’t get what Inworldz is about. Once again, inworldz is not OpenSim. It is not Second Life. It’s not trying to imitate OpenSim or Second Life. It has its own goals, priorities and time frames. The more time passes by the more powerful Inworldz will become… and the less compatibility it will maintain with other grids. The Founders have no intention of trying to maintain compatibility; they intend for Inworldz to be the best it can be.

            I could make a long, long list of things that don’t work on OpenSim… if I wanted to waste time on a useless endeavor. I prefer to not waste my time in these blogs badmouthing OpenSim. I’m too busy doing constructive and creative things on Inworldz to waste time posting OpenSim troll posts.

            That’s why I seriously question the motives, agenda and activity of folks who constantly badmouth Inworldz over and over in these blogs. Seriously– do they have nothing better to do with their time?

            I use Inworldz every day, seven days a week. I help manage a group of hundreds of members and over 50 sims. I am intimately aware of Inworldz’ strengths and weaknesses.

            I have also tested OpenSim rather extensively. That’s how I know when someone states that Inworldz is far behind OpenSim– or claims that OpenSim is more advanced and powerful than Inworldz– I know they’re blowing smoke. I have no time for smear posts. Such have nothing to do with being factual or educating / helping people.

            The only ones caused embarrassment are people who engage in such tactics. Such posts are a foolish waste of time– and they are not going to stop Inworldz’ growth or popularity. People can simply log in to Inworldz and see for themselves. As one person said who visited my region: “I didn’t know things like this could actually be done on virtual worlds.”

            Inworldz speaks for itself. Visitors are going to see what is being accomplished there… and a handful of people regularly spite-commenting on this blogsite is not going to stop that.

          • Linda

            I just have a couple of comments. First there is much more to OpenSim than sim on a stick. You talk about sim on a stick alot but I’ve never even tried it and don’t intend to. There are many OpenSim grids that have way more to offer than just the core OpenSim platform. There are grids that have used OpenSim as the base but they have gotten things to work on every grid. Just think you should know that it’s not fair to compare Sim on a stick with InWorldz or even 3rd Rock Grid, Avination etc…

            And you said “Inworldz is too polite to respond to you folks as warranted, but dwagons
            haz no prollum with a few well-deserved anklebites now and then.” I have to argue with this greatly. I don’t think IW is too polite for anything. The founders are smart enough to know not to get into these little dramafests. And the founders are focused on their own grid and their jobs. But that doesn’t mean they are polite. And I know that the residents that I used to know from there that took up for IW were far from polite (I was one of them). I just, very much doubt that politeness has anything to do with it. David just doesn’t allow himself to get sucked into this stupid little grid war that some people want to start. Jim allows himself to a tiny bit but then always knows when to back away. Ele probably gets held back by the rest of the crew although she has been known to post her comments on her blog or in their forums in the past (at least when I was a member there). And Legion has always been the quite type that didn’t get involved in this stuff.

            More grid owners could learn from that. If someone has a good grid and their residents are happy then they don’t need to pay any attention to the people who want to talk bad about them. I know for a fact that 3rd Rock Grid lets everything roll right off of their backs too. It works for them and it works for IW. (And this is why I could never be a grid owner)

          • SnootsDwagon

            Linda: ” I don’t think IW is too polite for anything. The founders are smart enough to know not to get into these little dramafests. And the founders are focused on their own grid and their jobs. But that doesn’t mean they are polite. And I know that the residents that I used to know fr om there that took up for IW were far from polite (I was one of them). I just, very much doubt that politeness has anything to do with it. David just doesn’t allow himself to get sucked into this stupid little grid war that some people want to start. Jim allows himself to a tiny bit but then always knows when to back away. Ele probably gets held back by
            the rest of the crew…”

            You know what… you are absolutely right. Like you say, it’s just a few people wanting to start “a stupid little grid war”… “a little drama fest”… and you’re correct. I agree it’s neither appropriate or necessary to respond. This is just pithy trash. I’ve said about all that’s needed to be said, Jim and Tranq both have adequately explained and defended Inworldz… and the grid is proving itself to come out on top no matter what the trouble-makers do.

            So you totally right. Tyty for you tap on da shoulder and wake-up call. Can’t do nuthin’ about people’s attitudes. We just gotta keeps our own snoots clean.

            Linda: “(And this is why I could never be a grid owner)”

            LOL I know ‘zactly what you mean. I had people ask me to start a grid and I said “Wot? Shoots myself in both paws?” :D

          • Gren

            Agreed they just know the trolls are waiting with popcorn Linda :)

          • SnootsDwagon

            Gren: “Agreed they just know the trolls are waiting with popcorn Linda :)”

            LOL that got a chuckle. :D

          • SnootsDwagon

            Linda: “I just have a couple of comments. First there is much more to OpenSim than sim on a stick. You talk about sim on a stick alot but I’ve never even tried it and don’t intend to. There are many OpenSim grids that have way more to offer than just the core OpenSim platform.”

            I meant to reply to this earlier but ran out of time.

            Agreed here. I know there are people who are advancing beyond core OpenSim code. But in that case they’re somewhat simliar to Inworldz. In fact, it’s been mentioned that Inworldz isn’t the only grid that doesn’t share its code modifications with the OpenSim project; there are other grids that have the same policy.

            The reason I mention Sim on a Stick is because it’s pure, central-core OpenSim code. I often refer to OSgrid for the same reason… a solid representation of the OpenSim project. So when someone claims OS is more powerful and advanced than Inworldz, I know for a fact such statement is opinion, not reality. Not disagreeing with you at all… just stating my viewpoint on Inworldz compared to OpenSim (if such comparison is even necessary. I think you and I both agree it is not).

            Other grids that modify OpenSim code… just like Inworldz are moving beyond the OpenSim core project. I personally think that’s great. I’ve often promoted diversity as a way to provide for the different needs of different people. I’m all for multiple grids, each trying out different things. Some of those grids may claim to be “OpenSim” grids, even if they’ve moved significantly beyond OpenSim. Others may eventually– like Inworldz– announce they no longer consider themselves part of the OpenSim project. Time will tell.

            I don’t deny the advances of VR all over. Even SL is making *some* advances. What I look at though is overall performance, overall stability and balance, overall end-effect. And for my money, Inworldz rocks. That doesn’t mean no one else has good ideas or isn’t making solid advances. It just means the regular attacks against Inworldz in comments here on HB are baseless and fomented (as you have mentioned) by personal agendas rather than sound observation and fact.

  • Jim Tarber

    As a journalist, you know that the lead-in like is the most important line. So thanks for that lead-in, one that won’t possibly mislead any readers into thinking it was relevant to InWorldz in any way. And of course the resulting tweets like this:
    Mariah Sparrowhawk@m_sparrowhawk13 hrs
    #virtualworlds InWorldz offers inventory backups to residents: In the wake of a massive data loss and ensuing … bit.ly/XCmDIQ

    Lani, any file is a good backup if you can use it to restore content lost for any reason. Which is what these backups were designed to do. Allow users to take their own backups. It’s not intended to be an export facility. That would weaken the backup considerably, as it would only include the much smaller list of portable inventory items. For that, there are already export facilities.

  • http://twitter.com/AmaranthimTalon Amaranthim Talon

    Maybe it IS “non-news”, but funny SL never thought of insuring their customer’s inventory.

    As for other stuff people want- it is being worked on- Mesh is being worked on, physics is finally here. I realize other girds have their own fandom, I admit my preference for InWorldz, but no reason I can see for down-playing what is obviously a great feature for Residents. Sure so open sim let’s you save things to your own machine- but apples and oranges. Closed grid vs Open; cat people/dog people- whatever. Different strokes and all that.

    • Linda

      I agree.. apples and oranges. And I have no idea what people are asking for there or what they are getting.

      I guess by “non-news” for me I meant that I thought this was done all along by all grids anyway. I just assumed it was all backed up.

      • http://twitter.com/AmaranthimTalon Amaranthim Talon

        It is backed-up. This is an additional step, and additional service – Not to put down SL, but I know it is a common complaint I have heard- when something has gone missing, it is just … gone.. I don’t really know about other grids, since I have very limited experience elsewhere, but I think IW is the only one offering this to their clients.

    • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

      By non-news, it is non-news for opensim where most of us are, it is only “news” to inwz ppl….

      We can all save our full inventories to our computers in the form of IARs, we can all save our entire regions in the form of OARs to our computers. We can share iars and oars, we can replace regions with other regions for various needs, we can do all sorts of things in opensim.

      And in fact kitely, with over 3000 regions offers full OAR exporting of worlds [as they call regions or megaregions] using coding they contributed to opensim that is a simple console switch that does not allow saving of certain items not FP by creators.

      I am sure ilan can further expand on this if he wishes. It is currently what is considered a “closed grid” but says they will open to HG rather soon.

      So, that would be “apples to apples” and a grid that is almost 3 times the size of inwz.

      Some discussion of this was done here for starter reading:

      http://forums.kitely.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90

      I am personally unconcerned with sl, comparing ANY grid to sl is ridiculous, imo. I think the largest to sl is osgrid and they are a 3rd the size, currently, and that is just region numbers.

      Inwz has to write code for these things as they forked off from opensim.

      The rest of opensim based grids, which are all but inwz [inwz is based upon it but left it before many improvements were done], sl and to some degree aurora, have moved way past all this.

      Best to learn a few things I would suggest, Amara…or, not…lol

      • Linda

        I guess that we are pretty spoiled on these open grid with our own server access and stuff so to us it doesn’t seem like a big thing. But I can see where this would be something big for a closed grid.

        And anytime you talk about closed grids and open grids it’s apples and oranges in my opinion.

        • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

          yes we are-)) and..is why I mentioned kitely..hehe [tries to cover all the bases but often fails miserably]

      • http://twitter.com/AmaranthimTalon Amaranthim Talon

        No Mine… If you re read my pos,t I clearly state that to compare OS and IW or even SL for that matter, is apples and oranges. What OS backs up is EVERYTHING- agreed. But – the world models are different. And you know this, so don’t obfuscate the issue. There are creator permissions involved and again, you know this. So, I will suggest as well that you make adequate comparisons… or not. :D

        • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

          Amara, Amara, Amara…I am not really interested in going into your inwz views comments, nor is most anyone else, I am sure….but I did try to kindly point you to the kitely forums where you “might” learn a few things of current code and such related to this article.

          In your case, and the sometimes other inwz folx who comment here, I just like to try to show them to information they obviously are not aware of. Some learn from that additional information, some never will due to various personal self-interests.

          When inwz folx comment and show their obvious lack of knowledge on current opensim development, I just get a little embarrassed for them, is all.

          Ppl who watch this site, and sometimes comment, as seen here in this article, are much more aware of what is going on. Thus the point of my original comment, this being non-news.

          If all grids asked Maria to do articles on their incremental changes I am not sure a full office of minimum wage clerks would allow her to keep up. The point is, as someone else commented, this type of things is of such little significance to the metaverse, why was it even posted?

          I see this article as important to inwz supporters only, and thus their forums are a good place to post it and comment on it.

          For the rest of us, it only, truly, simply shows how backward inwz is to the rest of the metaverse [excluding sl of course which all know do not do any backups other than personal ones and it is also, unimportant].

          I personally have no problem whatsoever, and I am sure most of us don’t, with whatever inwz does. I also have no problem whatsoever with them doing their own official viewer…go for it.

          So, you can either follow the kitely forums link I provided, to use as a starting point to teach yourself more on perms and such as the rest of the metaverse knows about, or you can continue to be, uninformed…personally, I like my eyes being opened, but that is just me-)) be well…

          • Linda

            Minethere’s quote: “For the rest of us, it only, truly, simply shows how backward inwz is to
            the rest of the metaverse [excluding sl of course which all know do not
            do any backups other than personal ones and it is also, unimportant].”

            I think this is the point. They have always thought outside of the box and tried to be different than every other grid out there. Kitely does too in their own way.

            I adore you and I understand that you don’t like IW for your own personal reasons. And I respect that. But sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due. IW takes big steps to provide things that other OpenSim grids do not. They succeed most of the time and they succeed because they aren’t like the (over 200) other grids.

            This announcement wasn’t news to me at first because I didn’t understand what they were doing. But now that it has been explained a bit more with the comments here I see that they are really looking out for the interest of their residents. So love them or hate them you have to admit that they are working hard to make their grid not be “just another OpenSim grid”.

            Being different and having their own scripting engine, their own physics, their own viewer and now this backup thingy is what is going to set them apart from everyone else. I think that is what they are trying to do because that is just good business.

            For my own personal reasons I don’t go to that grid. But I can understand and appreciate the strides they are making with their technology.

          • http://twitter.com/AmaranthimTalon Amaranthim Talon

            Well since what is important to the members of Kitely will be followed by the members of Kitely, by your reasoning, or lack there of, it should not be discussed here either. But since this actually is Maria’s space and she discusses all grids as she chooses, then I suppose it is up to her what she reports on. Personally, I have zero interest in Kitely or Island whatever or countless other grids and thus don’t waste my time opining on a subject that does not interest me. You however seem to have oodles of time to spend on such subjects clearly beneath your notice.

            Carry on, the rest of us will discuss or not as we deem fit, and as long as it holds interest or Maria decides otherwise- though frankly I am not sure if she ever actually intervenes in discussion- Sorry Maria, I usually only read cursorily.

          • http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ Maria Korolov

            In this particular case, what caught my attention is that this news is of potential interest to other grid masters — a way to give inventory backups to your residents without actually giving them copies of protected assets.

            To my knowledge, this is the first grid that’s done so, and I didn’t know it was possible. I learned — from this discussion — that there’s a way to save IAR files with no assets, just the pointers, so it looks like this is a feature that any closed, commercial grid can offer its customers.

            You’re right that I generally don’t run items of interest only to residents of one particular grid, or of purely promotional value. Every grid has its own internal communication platform (website, forums, welcome page, welcome region, etc…) to reach its own residents and if it’s purely promotional, you can buy an ad (I recommend GridPress, they could use some support).

            InWorldz, Kitely, and OSgrid get a lot of my attention not just because they’re big grids, but also because they’re innovative and do stuff that other grids can learn from. They’re pushing the boundaries of what’s possible with OpenSim. I love that. I may or may not agree with how they do it, but — since my predictions often turn out wrong — it’s a good thing that people are going out and doing their thing anyway.

            If I’m missing something, email me — [email protected]. Or call me. Why does nobody call anymore? My cell is 413-559-9055.

            If I still refuse to run your news, try Grid Press, New World Notes, I Live in Science Land, Living in the Modern World, Metaverse Traveller, or Daniel Voyager’s Blog (among others I can’t think of off the top of my head).

            I think one mistake people make is that they think I care about grid residents. But my primary allegiance is to the people who run grids — commercial grids, personal grids, but especially private business, education and non-profit grids.

            So yes, the residents of one grid probably couldn’t care less about backup options on some other, different grid that they’re not members of.

            But it’s the enterprise and business uses of virtual worlds that really excite me. And if I’m going to be spending a lot of time and money on a project, I might as well focus on the stuff I think is fun and exciting.

          • http://tarber.net/ Jim Tarber

            That was well-said. I think it helps to understand your motivation for the site — which as you point out might be entirely different than what drives readers here — as well as to have the contact info if something comes up.

          • http://minethere.blogspot.com/2012/10/region-creations.html Minethere

            actually, I am more focused on this worthy cause this weekend http://robstock2013.com/ and I am able to multi-task to a degree and 2 monitors helps tremendously-)) be well…

          • SnootsDwagon

            quote– Minethere: “I did try to kindly point you to the kitely forums where you “might” learn a few things of current code and such related to this article. In your case, and the sometimes other inwz folx who comment here, I just like to try to show them to information they obviously are not aware of. Some learn from that additional information, some never will due to various personal self-interests. When inwz folx comment and show their obvious lack of knowledge on current opensim development, I just get a little embarrassed for them, is all.For the rest of us, it only, truly, simply shows how backward inwz is to the rest of the metaverse… So, you can either follow the kitely forums link I provided, to use as a starting point to teach yourself more on perms and such as the rest of the metaverse knows about, or you can continue to be, uninformed.” –endquote

            Minethere… it always good to be reminded how much more educated and informed you are on the Metaverse than the rest of us. Dunno wot we’d do wifout you. ; )

            Maria has every right to post this here; Inworldz is a very significant part of virtual reality. We come here to Hypergrid Business to be informed– and every time a comment is made about Inworldz… dere is Minethere making same claims over and over– Inworldz is backward– Inworldz is behind– Inworldz isn’t of interest. Is untrue and goofy.

            I have used both OpenSim and Inworldz. I’ve run Sim on a Stick. I’ve worked extensively in VR for over eight years… and I can tell you Minethere– Inworldz is by no means backwards or inferior to the rest of the Metaverse. If anything they’re the most progressive grid I’ve ever seen. They’ve fixed all kinds of things that still plague OpenSim… and no matter how long or repeatedly you conduct your smear campaign against Inworldz… it’s still gonna progress. That’s what comes from hard work and professional organization.

            I likes Inworldz. So bleh. : p

      • http://tarber.net/ Jim Tarber

        As I mentioned in another reply, OAR files are unrelated. That’s an entirely different feature. An OAR file does not include a user’s personal inventory, only items rezzed in-world.

        Secure inventory backups are only important on closed commercial grids where inventory needs to be secure. IARs are the closest thing, but they are completely wide-open, insecure, sharable by all. So they aren’t the same thing either. In a commercial grid, an inventory backup must be completely secure and unbreakable, which this is. Hopefully this helps explain why this is a big deal to the residents, especially the many content creators.

        And yes, this is only really news to InWorldz residents, since it is only for InWorldz residents. However, Maria includes InWorldz in her coverage of news, where this is a huge deal. If you read the discussion among those affected, you will see they are completely thrilled at the news: http://inworldz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14812

        Since this is either hugely positive news to some folks, and to others it is “non-news”, I’m not sure why those who claim to not care about it want to spend so much time insinuating that it is somehow a bad thing. The InWorldz residents love it and that is all that is important here.

        • SnootsDwagon

          Excellent post Jim. I don’t really know why, but some OpenSim users seem to have animosity toward Inworldz– and find it necessary to bad-mouth everything Inworldz does… or alternately compare it to OpenSim. Comparing a secured grid to an unsecured grid is indeed comparing apples to oranges.

          Like Amaranthim wisely said above– cat people and dog people. Personal preferences and needs do not a superior platform make; hard work, professional organization and dedication is what makes platforms work. I am all for OpenSim and am glad it exists. But I’m also a realist and understand its limitations– just as I understand Inworldz limitations. I also understand we find the same people badmouth Inworldz on these posts over and over. My observation: there is more than just a little envy and threat-sense anger there. If these people were happy where they are and confident in their platforms, they wouldn’t find it necessary to regularly put down what other people are doing.

          Inworldz is doing great. Keep up the good work.

  • AviWorlds

    AviWorlds already offered that since it opened up. Also offers roll backs up to 8 days pluas your full region’s back up files. Only the objects the region’s owner can be placed on these OAR files. No news. old news. nothing new. the only difference here is that no one talked about it. :)

    • Bobby

      I think Aviworlds is correct i agree that many other commercial grid are already providing this kind of service but they dont talk about it too much, nothing new but might be new to someone from SL migrating to opensim

    • http://tarber.net/ Jim Tarber

      OAR files are region backups for rezzed objects, not user inventory backups. These are personal self-serve inventory backups, providing the user the ability to capture their inventory state. I’m not aware of any other closed/commercial grid that provides this.

      • Bobby

        I know several Grid offers IAR save upon request sent to their emails or download from a special link…. This is a good practice because those IAR are own by the owners of the avatars.

        I think content creators should also allow those who bought their product to be able to bring it to other grid since people pay for it.

        • Linda

          IAR’s are the worst thing that a closed grid could offer. Saving an IAR will save things that may not be the persons own creation. And when the person imports it to another grid or their standalone they become the “creator” and the “owner” of the items even if they were not the creator.

          Grids of all kinds should NOT do this for their residents. If it’s an open grid where you can connect your own region and you choose to save an IAR yourself on your own hosted region that’s one thing. But the grid doing it for you would be them taking responsibility and that would be about the worst thing they could do for legal reasons in my opinion.

          I guess there may be grids that have figured out how to do this for their residents and be proof positive that they are only backing up things actually created by that resident but I haven’t heard of this if this is the case.

          • SnootsDwagon

            ‘Zactly Linda. Bobby, stating that content creators should allow their product to be taken to other grids is telling people they should just give away whatever they create to people they don’t know. Because that’s exactly what would happen. OpenSim and Hypergrid have no import/export security.

            It’s kinda like saying when you buy a car… the dealer should give you as many cars as you want. ; )

          • Bobby

            Opensim and Second Life content creators should work together on licencing of their products. I am a buyer and it really turns me of if i cannot bring the product i bought to another world and thats unfair.

          • Linda

            I understand what you’re saying Bobby. But that’s sort of like saying that I should be able to take my items from World of Warcraft to an OpenSim grid (and I would LOVE that). These are different games ran and paid for by different people/companies.

            Or it’s like saying that if I buy a TV at Walmart I should be able to return it at Best Buy.

            I know this isn’t on topic at all and I would love to see an article here about that so that we could all debate it. It’s a hot issue for sure.

          • SnootsDwagon

            I would personally love to see grid-interchangable items. However there’s a hitch: Inworldz is now developing new, powerful scripting functions that don’t exist elsewhere. As well… OpenSim has developed new, powerful scripting functions that don’t work on Inworldz. So even if items could be ported securely and safely and with owner’s right intact… you’d have an item that just sits there with script errors popping out all over.

            As was mentioned by Inworldz devs… at what point do we stop progressing for the sake of “compatibility”? If they try to retain compatibility with OpenSim, their own progress ceases. They’re not willing to do that… nor should they be.

            I think that the idea everyone must be compatible and interchangeable is a utopian fairy tale. Advances are made through exploration, not holding back in order to maintain an elusive “compatibility”. Is Playstation compatible with Nintendo? Windows with Linux? Apple with anybody?

            The fact that these worlds bear a functional resemblance tends to make us feel they should be interchangeable and compatible and all going for the same goal. That is a delusion. Most automobiles have an engine and four wheels. But try to interchange parts and one quickly finds out how different they really are.

            That’s the simple reality of VR these days– and I think people need to recognize that reality and just get on with their grid of choice. : )

            Some people prefer Ford. Some people prefer Chevy. Some people prefer Toyota. No one expects them to retain fully interchangeable parts. Why should we expect any different from Virtual worlds?

          • Gren

            Fcuk SL and just stop buying there, only people who don’t know or don’t think deeply enough about the money they waste there on Land still rent homes there or shops. Marjetplace killed the need for shops and opensim provides more than good enough homes :)

          • Gren

            The car dealer analogy is not the same at all what planet are you on dude get real :) or do you expect me the buy the same car over and over and over again. Noway.

            That’s not saying I would sell what I bought, or give away, because that to me is just wrong and a almost as bad as going around SL and ripping entire sims I never paid for, not that I care what happens to sl or it’s greed driven economy, but sure I undrstand the time and effort creators put into their creations.

          • SnootsDwagon

            Actually the car analogy (while not precisely identical) is a good one. People think just because something is virtual and potentially copyable, it is somehow less a business property / asset than a real life item such as an automobile. To answer your question– no, I wouldn’t expect you to re-buy the same car over and over… but that’s not what’s being discussed is it? What’s being discussed is buying something– and expecting to be able to copy it from grid to grid to grid. In RL if you need three cars… you’re going to have to buy three cars.

            Now I will agree it would be very nice to be able to SECURELY transfer my personal inventory from grid to grid. For example, if there is a virtual car that I created and really enjoy driving, it would be nice to be able to visit any grid I wish and still drive that car. And to an extent I can do that– with my own creations– if the script engines are compatible. But if I take that car to a grid owned by an unscrupulous, unethical “sim god”… that car can be stolen as easily as one can say “misappropirated”.

            That’s the problem. I think all of us would enjoy the utopian dream where all grids are 100% compatible, stable, functional, with full security in place and everyone honest. But we have to live in the real world.

          • Gren

            No, I don’t think it was a good analogy at all, not even close. This goes beyond mere buying of an item and wanting to transport it as like the subject thread is headed with.. backups.

            As backups are not an option a user can pick in OpenSim or SL it’s become one of the main reasons why people copy their inventory as they know LL won’t replace things lost or refund for things they lose, they are far too tight and one sided for that.

            So… backups at a users whim on OpenSim are an advantage I guess.

            So what if a few cars get stolen anyway, in the grand scheme of the virtual universe does it matter, the model was probably stolen from the internet anyway.

          • SnootsDwagon

            Gren: “So what if a few cars get stolen anyway, in the grand scheme of the virtual universe does it matter, the model was probably stolen from the internet anyway.”

            That’s a very good point actually, and one of recent discussion with some friends. I remember a case on SL where a major texture merchant was VERY insistent on people observing copyrights, had great big signs, threatened to sue, etc etc etc. Then come to find out that merchant had been selling textures taken from the Internet and to which the merchant had no copyright in the first place. Talk about hypocrisy.

            That said, there are a number of skilled and talented creators who have put a lot of time into their work, who deserve to reap the benefits of that work. In the grand scheme of the virtual universe their property rights matter very much– because that is going to influence the direction VR goes… honorable or dishonorable.

            It’s my experience the more dishonorable a government, the more dishonorable its citizens– and the worse the environment. If one wants a good neighborhood… look for one with law-abiding people with a sense and ethics… simple right vs wrong.

          • Gren

            Yes I’ve seen the same thing going on in SL SnootsDwagon with huge numbers of creators/sellers ranting about copybot and thieves and beeng very restrictive with permissions on their products.

            Especially annoying are the little wannabe millionaires who think they are really in business by having a store in SL (despite not paying any taxes) who go out of their way when selling full perm items to say not to be used on other grids or I file DMCA.

            There are thousands of current and former creators in SL who never paid for the Photoshop software or 3D modelling software they use, you mentioned texture makers, look at the big texture sellers in SL then ask yourself how long it would take to make one texture then multiply the time by average number of textures per pack then add to that the actual number of packs they have for sale and one thing becomes clear.

            Noway could that person or even three people have made all those textures.

            They love to moan about OpenSim being insecure and open to thieves and especially accuse grid owners of likely doing that but fact is thats a coput, they just don’t want to leave SL for OpenSim while they can contiinue to make a few L$ there, here is another fact, SL is swarming with thieves, it has more thieves per sim than a prison and most of them are importing Mesh models made by someone else now.

            In my opinion OpenSim is a safer place for creators than SL, why? Because LL don’t care about prevention but an independent Grid owner using OpenSim probably does.

          • Linda

            This is in response to just the comment about texture makers.

            I know that I for one don’t use photoshop. I use a very old copy of paint shop pro (that I paid for many many years ago). I can whip out texture packs in no time flat. I also had stores in sl selling various things (mostly clothing and animations) for about 4 years and it was a real business and I did file real life taxes on it.

            Some of the big name texture places in sl actually don’t make all of their own textures. Some purchase from other creators and get the full rights to sell them as their own. I know because years ago I sold some packs to one of the big name texture places there. So they don’t have to spend all of that time creating them but they are still doing it legal.
            I have seen some texture places that are selling textures from known websites and claiming it as their own. So it does happen. And I agree that most business’s in virtual worlds don’t file taxes. It will probably catch up with them sooner or later and then they will be in for a world of hurt. My first year claiming I had to pay in 8,000 USD to taxes for just my SL business. That sucked, but I’m glad I did it all legally so I can not worry about it now.

          • Gren

            Who cares, we all have copybot viewers don’t we? I mean most of my stuff is from sl anyway where use of ripper viewers is much higher than ever before.

            So the Americans can whine about DMCA as much as they like, I don’t recignise it and if I bought something in sl I want to use it on any grid regardless what the creator wants, if they don’t like that then they should quit selling.

  • Professer Greyhound

    Edited

    • Linda

      I just read that thread and I didn’t see anything about any merger. Maybe you are reading something into it. Or maybe you posted the wrong thread.

      I can’t even imagine a scenario where those two grids would merge.

      • Professer Greyhound

        Edited

        • Linda

          When did they say they would do business with Linden labs? Do you have a link? Because if this is true then that would be some big news (Although I doubt it to be true).

          And when you speak of the “InWorldz Views” are you talking about the whole grid? All of the residence? The founders? One founder? And do you have anything to substantiate your claim that they are drunken with power?

          I’m just wondering what this is all about. I know they had a bit of news that Maria posted here. That doesn’t seem to be the topic you are replying to though. If this does have something to do with this article then can you clarify what you are talking about please?

  • AviWorlds

    I dont even get it really….InWorldz hasnt contributed to Open Sim and everything they do is locked up with seven keys! I may be wrong but this is what I see. They do not share any codes, nothing..Its in their rights I dont take that away from it..But for me I really do think this blog should pay more attention to the open sim related grids and the ones that share like AVINATIONS!

    • Linda

      I believe you are wrong about InWorldz not contributing back to OpenSim. It wasn’t that long ago that I saw twitter exchanges between IW and Justin Clark Cassy about something they were sharing.
      But that really isn’t the point. Do you really want Maria to only write about one type of grid? Maybe she should only write about grids with hypergrid since that is what her domain name states this page is about. But I enjoy that she wants to see the meteverse from all sides. I’d actually like it if she focused a bit more on the social aspect of virtual worlds since that is part of even the business world in virtual. But I would never want her to scale back. Knowledge is power. I enjoy learning about grids that I am not even on.
      Also you have to take into account that IW is not an OpenSim grid anymore. They are a grid unto themselves. They don’t use the OpenSim code that most other grids are using. They have their own scripting engine and physics. The code they write now would probably not be compatible with reg. OpenSim and, therefore, be of no use to the OpenSim developers.
      I’m not a resident of IW anymore but it freaks me out how many people here are upset that they are getting any attention at all. This thing they are doing seems pretty major and there is nothing wrong with Maria reporting on it.
      I would suggest that grids that want to be reported on start doing something to make the “news” and sending their press releases to Maria.

      • SnootsDwagon

        Dat is such good post Linda. Appaws!

        AviWorlds: “I dont even get it really….InWorldz hasnt contributed to Open Sim and everything they do is locked up with seven keys! I may be wrong but this is what I see. They do not share any codes, nothing..Its in their
        rights I dont take that away from it..But for me I really do think this blog should pay more attention to the open sim related grids and the ones that share like AVINATIONS!”

        I don’t think this blog pays more attention to Inworldz than other grids. However it should be recognized that since Inworldz is constantly at the top of the top-20 list of grids… it’s going to get some page space.

        You’re correct, it is their right to not share code– especially when they paid good money to have that code developed by professional programmers (why should they give away their trade secrets to their competitors to use for free?). Contrary to the “everything should be free” dogma… this is business. One does not run a business by giving away product for free to the competition.

        Inworldz is not a “closed” grid as the misnomer goes; it is a SECURE grid, which means customer’s creations are protected (as much as possible) from theft by unscrupulous parties. Apparently that’s a pretty popular concept– because Inworldz has almost twice the active users as OSgrid (even before the recent shakeup). Their way of doing business has made them the most profitable grid outside of SL… while still giving their customers a relatively good deal on secured, professionally-maintained land.

        OpenSim is great– but it’s “hobbyist-level” software. When Inworldz started out they tried to work with OpenSim but they got zero cooperation from the ego-factors that believed OpenSim should not be used to form a for-profit business. After banging their heads against that wall, they finally abandoned the OpenSim project and went their own way (I’d have done the same thing, frankly). Still, they have at times contributed back to OpenSim when they found a fix that made a really-big difference in performance… which is more than they’re required to do.

        So that’s what it is– a commercial, secured grid as opposed to an open hobbyist grid. Two different environments, two different goals and purposes. No grid has obligation to contribute back to the main project. That’s what “Open Source” software is all about. People can pretty much do whatever they want with it. To complain that someone uses it to form a business is to deny the very foundation of the OpenSource movement.

        The reason Inworldz gets face time here… is because it’s the most popular grid outside of Second Life. Despite the fact that they’re independent and unique… they’re still a significant part of the Metaverse, which is what Maria writes about. According to today’s society, independence is the golden ring, yes? Profitability is the goal of our society. That given, I’d say Inworldz warrants all the news space HB decides to give it. Considering their plans for 2013, brace up– I think we can expect a lot more of the same. ; )

        • AviWorlds

          I am sorry but I cannot agree that having over 1000 regions land mass with only about 150 average online daily is a success. The most important part of any virtual world is the SMALL PLOT renter. The community. Not land owners. In fact if it wasnt for the small lot renters in SL; I believe none of the land owners would be able to pay their tiers. Lacking a DEMANDING community is very dangerous and I predict that the grids that do not pay attention to that particular area will eventually shut down. You have to agree that most of the regions in INWORLDZ are paid and owned by land owners. They do not have a healthy small plot market which would have the RENTERS pay for the land the land owners own. That is a dangerous ground and loosing regions will be part of their future if there is not a small land market inworld.

          • Linda

            quote from AviWorlds “I am sorry but I cannot agree that having over 1000 regions land mass with only about 150 average online daily is a success.”

            You don’t think that is a success? I think “success” is a word that people view differently. I happen to think you can have 2 regions and 2 users and be a success if that was your goal.

            But 150 daily users is massive for a grid. I am not sure which grid you were talking about with your statistics but I think that number you gave is really high. But I don’t take too much stock in numbers though. If a grid is meeting it’s personal goals and their residents are happy then they are successful.

          • AviWorlds

            Linda I m sorry but for a commercial grid I do not see having 150 users online (ALL REGION OWNERS) a success. I predict they will start loosing regions.
            And InWorldz is 4 or 5 years old. I m not sure…
            So you can say AviWorlds reaching 45 daily online residents with only 4 months old and all its stores making money, 10 residential regions filled with residents is a success?
            We are very low in land mass but it is starting to attract region owners to rent out SMALL PARCELS to all the people registering. That is what SECURES a region COUNT that will LAST.

          • Guest

            45? AviWorlds with that many, I been there many times visiting being you have a huge hype going thats its a popular grid i see 20 maybe 25 online at any given time. And I agree completely on what Inworldz does They are completely on different platform than the rest of opensims what they do is News being this blog is about Virtual Worlds not just Aviworlds. I see alot of anger and fustration in your past posts not a very friendly attitude for a new grid. Food for thought…..

          • AviWorlds

            Hey Linda and all here. I am sorry I will do my best to get along with you guys ok. Thanks.

          • SnootsDwagon

            AviWorlds: “Hey Linda and all here. I am sorry I will do my best to get along with you guys ok. Thanks.”

            Thumbs up! : )

          • Linda

            your 10 residential regions that you have filled are the free land you gave away right?
            I don’t consider your grid a success. If it were you wouldn’t need to be putting other grids down to bring yourself up. But if that is what your goal was then I guess you succeeded.

          • AviWorlds

            Linda that is not the reason AviWorlds is a success and I did not put any grid down. I simply disagreed that INWORLDZ is the most successful grid. I will shut up now and just keep it to myself for now on. I guess opinions have to be like living in UTOPIA where everything has to be good and nice and EVERYONE wins. NO loser here. I just happened to think that we do not live in UTOPIA. and I recognize wrong from right, success from not successful. First and second, third place… Thats all.

          • Linda

            AviWorlds. I don’t expect you to only say good things. I love a good debate. I just think that as a grid owner you might want to think about how it looks when you spend time putting other grids down.

            Do you think that there is something bad about IW doing the inventory backups? If so please express that. I can’t find a thing wrong with it.

            And you can state your opinion on if you think something is successful but unless you are clear on what their goals are and if they have met those goals then you really have no facts to back up your claims that they are not the most successful grid.

            I believe in freedom of speech. I just think that it does Maria such an injustice to highjack her article on the “news” of something good that IW did just to promote your own grid. It really is just in bad taste to try and steal someone’s thunder when they work so hard to do something noteworthy like InWorldz did. You should be happy for them and hope that they will be happy for you when you do something noteworthy. That’s all I am saying.

          • AviWorlds

            ok you said a whole lot righ there :)

          • SnootsDwagon

            Yeah, dat Linda pretty sharp. I likes her.

            She eben gives me cookies. :D

          • SnootsDwagon

            AviWorlds: ” I did not put any grid down. I simply disagreed that INWORLDZ is the most successful grid.”

            Linda has made a very good point in the past– that “success” depends a lot on definition. I think the best example is Linden Lab and Second Life. Is it a “success”? Financially and size-wise, in one viewpoint, no doubt about it. They’re fairly profitable and the largest grid on earth. However from another viewpoint, they’ve repeatedly earned a bad reputation in several areas (a virtual brothel and a money-grubbing corporate attitude, to name two), and they’ve made more enemies and alienated more customers than any company should be comfy with. So is that “success”? It seems a double-edged sword.

            Imo it’s really too early to be bandering the word “success” around when it comes to VR grids (although I admit, I myself have done so). Reason being: it’s just too early in the game. When the largest population outside of SL is less than 7,000 people… there’s really not a lot of bragging room. Other grids clocking in at considerably less than that have even less to brag about. Success? I think that claim in the case of ALL grids (including SL) would be a bit premature.

            But as Linda has stated very well– there are several reasons Inworldz is, to some extent, considered “successful”. These include (all of this data excluding SL):

            1. Having the largest number of paid-subscriber regions
            2. Having the largest concurrency
            3. Having the largest number of active users
            4. Being the most popular
            5. Having the most stable software foundation

            So while it is indeed too early to play the “success” game (and I’ll not disagree with you there)… if one were to step out and judge overall success at this time, in all fairness Inworldz would at least have to be considered a top-of-the-top contender. They are the most profitable grid outside of SL, have the largest number of active users outside of SL, the largest number of paid sims outside of SL… and they have paid, professional staff. I’d say to at least a measurable extent– that is some indication of “success”. : )

          • GridHopper

            I have to agree to the above statement, Inworldz has proved themselves time and time again. So with that said lets move on :)

          • SuperGod

            Aviworlds, stop talking about your online users and etc, many of us knows that you are running your grid via DLM, they are a good company please do not give them a bad reputation with your rants and sour attitude. By looking at your website i think you must be Brazilian, Since you can communicate in Portuguese why not handle brazillian market only instead of trying to compete with SL or Avination or other english speaking grid. Do not let Super God Strike Thunder On Your Land and create Floods lol hehehe

          • SnootsDwagon

            I can’t disagree there. However Inworldz is set up a little differently. They don’t rent small plots. They only rent full sims… and leave it to landholders to rent out plots. That way they don’t wind up competing with their own customers like LL does. So no, I don’t agree that Inworldz doesn’t have a “healthy small plot market”. I have an entire region I rent out… and I’ve publicly encouraged people who can’t afford full sims to consider renting 1/4 or 1/16th plots. There are enough active users on Inworldz to do support the land economy… and by the end of 2013 should be a whole lot more.

            Inworldz doesn’t engage in small-plot renting. Their goal is to provide the best, most stable grid platform they can provide. Beyond that… the rest is up to their customers. They’re not going to do like Linden Lab and compete with their customers. They strive to be better than that.

          • AviWorlds

            Well that is a great MISTAKE InWorldz is committing. By not having the PARCEL renter it does not have a COMMUNITY. That is essential for a COMMERCIAL grid to survive!
            I do not call HAVING ONLY 1200 regions a success. A 4 or 5 year old grid correct?
            And I do not call UNIQUE USERS active users…Sorry! Unique simply shows that a person registered. It does not show if that same person did login again and is actually ACTIVE on the grid. And by looking at the daily ONLINE stat they show that is not the case. Sorry again.
            If you look really into it…You will see that SL survives and makes its MILLIONS purely on the tier they charge the land owners. LAND OWNERS CAN ONLY KEEP THEIR 1000s regions in SL by having the SMALL PARCEL renters.
            Another HUGE MISTAKE is having it be so easy to GIVE UP a region. By being so cheap it is easier to give up that region than when you paid 1000 dollars for it.
            Having only region OWNERS is not the way to go. You need the RESIDENTS! Buy, selling, exchanging, CAUSING DEMAND to exist on that grid. Soon all the region owners will have what they need but then what? No one living there… You need the PARCEL renters.
            That is why AviWorlds in 4 months has done so much! And I predict here that AviWorlds is going to pass InWorldz, Avination in DAILY ONLINE USERS and eventually in land mass.
            I dont say this because I own it. I say it because of the strategy I am implementing in AviWorlds.
            We have only 55 regions! But if you take a look in our daily online users; we have already passed the 30 online users mark and sometimes we have reached 45. 4 MONTHS OLD. I am predicting that with the STRATEGY I am implementing on this grid we will only grow more and more with more RESIDENTS and PARCEL RENTERS. That will then attract REGION BUYERS to rent them out to these residents.

          • Linda

            They don’t sell parcels of land because that is not their business. They are not land barons. They run a grid. I think it’s one of the best things that they do to let their residents sell parcels off of their regions.

            3rd Rock Grid sells parcels. They have been around for many years and they don’t have many people there at all. So I would guess that that one little thing is not what makes or breaks a grid.

            AviWorlds, here is an observation and a piece of advice….you seem bitter. You posted over and over again and tweeted over and over again about the stat numbers that Maria posted not too long ago. And now this. You act like this is some sort of competition. All you really have to do is not worry about the numbers and enjoy your grid and make your grid the best you can. This isn’t about being better than another grid. This is about being the best you can be.
            It really looks bad for a grid owner to post the things you are posting and using all caps on things as if you are yelling. I predict that your grid won’t last long. You do way too much bragging and putting other grids down. People want to support a grid that has a grid owner they respect.

          • Guest

            I happen to agree and think Linda speaks for alot of other people on this blog also, She makes valid points #1 being They run a grid not land barons and #2 Aviworlds seems very bitter and angry making alot of boasts on a grid with not such a good past record.

          • SnootsDwagon

            Linda: “All you really have to do is not worry about the numbers and enjoy your grid and make your grid the best you can. This isn’t about being better than another grid. This is about being the best you can be.”

            Dat is SUCH good advice… for everyone who runs a grid, as well as for everyone who enjoys a particular grid. Is best to just keep our noses in our own backyard and enjoy the flowers we grow. No need to stomp other people’s gardens. : )

          • Bobby

            I totally agree with Linda and the rest, If you guys read my previous couple of post i advised the owner fo Aviworlds to cool it down, Nobody ill want to be part of grid who’s owner is sour and temperamental trying to compete with the big boys running big grid. It will just turn down future customer if they finds out about Aviworlds sour attitude lol, And yes Aviworlds have been trying to boast about its online resident numbers and have been battling with Maria. Aviworlds an advice from me if you want your grid to succeed on the google search engine this is not the way you should do it, There will be too many negative comments about you and your toy . You should slow down your marketing hype and start respecting other grid that has been around for many number of years. To be successful you need to be a respectable grid owner. Not like a mafia run grid ! Sorry for the long post but this is just an advice.

          • SnootsDwagon

            I have to agree with Linda and some others here. ‘Scuse me for being frank AviWorlds, but it strikes me that you’re using this forum as an opportunity to promote your own grid. This article is about a new policy on Inworldz, not land financials.

            You state Inworldz isn’t going to work because of their business plan. You brag about 55 regions and 30 users in 4 months.

            Here’s reality: When our group first showed up on Inworldz, they were still working on getting the grid online and functional and hadn’t even tried to attract users. They had just gotten it stable enough to speak with us about setting up there. At that time they had 14 sims– almost all of them grid-supported test sims (I think there were 1 or 2 privately owned)… and about 100 users. We set up two sims there because we thought they had a good business plan and attitude.

            Within *one* month… they had 200 sims. Within 90 days (three months) they had 500+ sims.

            The reason they “only” have 1000 or so sims is because unlike some grids… they wanted to get their foundation updated and working well before they began their public marketing.

            Their public marketing starts well… next week, I believe.

            You’ve bragged about setting up 55 sims within four months… while Inworldz hit 200 within ONE month. By the four months you’re discussing they’d already passed 500 regions. So I don’t think you can realistically challenge their business model.

            At 55 sims and 30 concurrency, your claiming a grid you own is going to bypass Inworldz is more than a little premature. There is more to running a profitable company than standing on a rooftop and angrily shouting “I’m the greatest!”

            Now on a positive note: you have 55 sims and 30 users. That’s great! Keep doing what you’re doing if you want to. See what you can accomplish. But remember: the proof really isn’t in the numbers. It’s in the stability / capability of your grid and the satisfaction of whatever users you do have. That’s the real bottom-line goal: to provide people with a stable, functional VR platform. That is the golden ring for which everyone should be reaching. Numbers, concurrency… those should be natural results of attaining that goal.

          • Bobby

            Aviworlds, You are correct on this, Not everyone can afford to pay for a whole full region , So small parcel rental is playing a big part in most grids including in SL ………….

  • SnootsDwagon

    General note: I tend to defend Inworldz against blatantly spurious claims, but such is obviously becoming a waste of time. Some of the posts here are obvious manifestations of an intentional smear campaign conducted by several users. Inworldz will defend itself well enough through daily operation and increased popularity. I have to believe bogus posts will be exposed in time and historical reality.

    • Linda

      At one time I got attacked here a lot in the comments of one of Maria’s blogs and I decided after that to stop reading here. I didn’t come here for awhile. But I came back. No matter what there will be drama in comments and there is always someone with an agenda that will find a way to post their agenda no matter what the topic is. But it’s worth it to keep reading and sifting through it all because there is a lot of really good information that comes from the comments. And if nothing else, it’s food for thought.

      I enjoy the debates about different grids. But there are some people who will just continue to be snide while posting “lol” as if it were a joke. It’s a passive aggressive thing that I always hate. But there is no way to stop that or to stop people from running with their agendas. All to often their agendas are to bring a person or grid down and make them look bad.

      If Maria were to stay here and keep everyone on topic she wouldn’t have a life. So even though it’s hard to sometimes read the propaganda it does show a freedom of speech that we all should be thankful for.

      This should have been a topic that had very few comments and no negative comments at all. I can’t see one thing that anyone would think was wrong with a grid trying to take steps to insure their customers inventory is safe and backed up.

      Maybe Maria should put up a forum or something where people could go and talk about anything they want. Then when people get off topic she can just step in and say “take it to the forum”. :) I’d love that.

      • SnootsDwagon

        Is very good post Linda. I accepts it as good advice. Cos you’re right, no matter what, the agenda people gonna keep up their agenda, even if they know it’s wrong and poor behavior. Best thing to do is appreciate Maria’s posts… cos imo she’s getting better and better with her articles as time passes.

        Rather than tearing these grids down, we should be rooting them on for tackling such a huge task.

  • GridHopper

    If Inworlz offers more for there residents than thats only a good thing Lets not knock it.

  • GridHopper

    I have to agree looking over past posts and constant arguing about others grids and in some cases with how maria runs her own blog. It’s a sign of attention usually used by small children to get there way or see what they see. not the actions of a adult or a grid owner making false claims.

    • SnootsDwagon

      GridHopper: “It’s a sign of attention usually used by small children to get there way”

      Yup yup yup.

  • Harriet Inglewood

    You have not answered my questions because you cannot. You cannot support any of your claims because they are not true.

    If you are truly done here then you will at least stop the damage you are doing to yourself, the clan you are a part of and the grid you come from.