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31 Comments

1. 

   This is quite an interesting article, mesh was introduced to Aurora-Sim about the same time as OpenSim, and works just as well as it does on Windows. However on Aurora-Sim we have the mesh to prim ratio working for the most part, allowing land impact to show properly.

   1. 

      Kind of a little misleading though -the problem isn’t with opensim; opensim had mesh a couple of years before SL had it.

      The problem is with the people who don’t want to give up imprudence (for a variety of reasons).

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         GODDAM IMPRUDENCE IS THE BANE OF MY VIRTUAL LIFE!!11!

2. 

   On all the projects I work on we do not use mesh because the Imprudence still is the favorite viewer. Why Imprudence,, because the user interface is working fine for education. Also the search is still working fine, out of the box.
   We tried and also use Firestorm but there are some changes to be made to the UI to fully use it for our projects. A bit too much changes for teachers.

   1. 

      Exactly Nick Imprudence is the prefered Viewer in all Opensim is has far less problems Then the cloud making Firestorm

3. 

   Good Article Maria ! .. I’d point out a small detail in regards to using a Viewer which is mesh capable. The graphics card requirement to support mesh capable viewers is also a key point for people not adopting V3 viewers. The simple Intel or ATI onboard video’s just don’t have enough power. Most laptops & netbooks which are so popular are too under-powered graphics wise. People with a proper PC (desktop) have the options of upgrading their video cards but most laptops etc do not have that option.

4. 

   Great article Maria. I have to say that I saw the InWorldz waffles and they looked yummy.
   🙂
   Actually I think most things look better in mesh but in many cases I don’t like the look of mesh avatars and mesh clothing. It tends to look sort of plastic.

   I did some mesh content on IMVU -using meshes that I derived from mesh creators and I didn’t like it so much.

   Creating mesh is super simple to me. Much easier than sculpties. Texturing is the thing I haven’t learned yet and I never really learned that with sculpts either. So I guess I am going to stay behind the times for a little while longer because I simply don’t feel driven to learn something new right now.

5. 

   The only problem I see with imprudence viewer is that it makes avatars clouds all the time. But it is very light and people like that in particular. The V3 viewers are very heavy at least that is what feel.

6. 

   I have to agree 200% with Chris from fleepgrid, As for Mesh more than half of openism residents don’t see it for 1. For 2 its not a builders tool, anyone can download it for free from many online sites such as Google Warehouse. Whats the fun in downloading objects with out building them? Mesh to me and many others think it belongs in SL, being all the old school builders are gone. and prims and sculpts takes alot of creativity which many lack. But I can understand the fact many starving grids need content and Mesh is the best way I suppose.

   1. 

      I don’t know what you mean by mesh not being a builder’s tool. When I’m trying to make a mesh item I am certainly building as much as I would be if I were merely manipulating prims.

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         Sounds like you ain’t doing something right.

         1. 

            You’ve still not explained yourself. It certainly takes effort to go into a 3d program and make something. Not all mesh is merely downloading stuff from Google Warehouse. How is going through the effort of creating something in the program for upload not building?

            Or maybe it is YOU who isn’t doing something right? I don’t know as you’ve not explained what you meant.

            1. 

               I only meant that creating a statue or a castle or anything else out of Prims alone is a feat not everyone can do, It takes skill to put cube A with Cube Z to create a realistic Object this was done by old school builders who built SL what it is today. Mesh as you say and correct Is a simple 3D program that removes the building skill to create such objects, Example a Castle of extreme realism is over 800 to 1000 prims where the lesser Mesh can be done in 60 and take about 20 minutes to do. Now you can also do as 85% of the so-called builders do and download it from many online sites and then say 🙂 Look what I built haha Please…Mesh has its place in SL where land impact is a issue….and Viewers are a must…Many come to opensims to create (Prims) and maybe this is why the preferred Viewer is imprudence. Opensims is by far not SL. Again im a builder and use whats available no need for me to use a outside program other than for textures. Hope this clears things up with you. being you must be new to Virtual worlds 🙂

            2. 

               Actually I’ve been in virtual worlds for quite some time thank you very much your condescension is unnecessary and unappreciated.

               Using a 3d program to make an object takes skill and it’s not something you can slap together in 20 minutes and expect good results and then you still have to work at texturing. It takes skill and time and I don’t think you do anyone a favor belittling the process. People who WANT to build and want to be sure of the permissions of the items they use will build their own so to claim that because someone put up a mesh doesn’t mean they didn’t build anything is a less than convincing argument.

            3. 

               “Using a 3d program to make an object takes skill”

               indeed it does!!! anyone who thinks otherwise has never cracked open anything like Blender 3D! serious mad skillz to create mesh-based 3D objects (as well as massive rendering times)

            4. 

               Why go outside to make textures? Don’t you just steal them from google like 85% of so-called builders? *bats eyelashes innocently*

            5. 

               Are you talking about Google Warehouse? Now wonders whats in your eyes 🙂

   2. 

      Mesh, by giving granular access to individual faces, edges and vertices is the most powerful approach to creating unique and complex objects yet. When used for complex and detailed building challenges, mesh work is extremely demanding, both in skill level and time. I worked with prims and sculpted prims for many years before turning to mesh, and the increase in complexity is exponential.

      With the opportunity to use mesh, there are virtually no limits to object complexity and form, but the learning curve for realizing complex objects with mesh is steep. And it’s not just a question of learning the application interface. There are many skills to master for creating efficient, deliberate and accurate mesh topology. To say otherwise is to not understand just how deep the craft of mesh building goes.

      If I were recommending a building strategy I would not start with the technology anyway, but with the desired functionality and impressions desired. What might suffice as “realistic” in one situation might be wholly inadequate in another.

      1. 

         i completely understand what your saying my comment was SL virtual worlds was made to be a virtual world with users and creators to create and build what was intended and that being said its Prims. If you ever visit SL Second Life and look at some of the older builds you may scratch your head and say ‘Damn they made that out of prims” yes they did those people are known as Builders. Now with todays technology 3D max/Blender/Google Download has taken that away and the demand for prims with land impact is now important being of rising costs. I am a straight up and down builder if I cant make it out of Prims and a few sculpts I ask myself why am I here in virtual worlds…….There is many many online applications for the designer of 3D max stuffs. Im just speaking for myself and a few old timers who may never see a SL type world become a 3D program Download for the 3D designers. Sadly these people don’t have a clue how to build what Virtaul worlds was intended for at day 1.

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            Where can I see one of those wonderful builds of yours?

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               Ask nicely and don’t forget to say please I may show you. Vanish 🙂

            2. 

               Can I please nicely see one of your wonderful builds?

         2. 

            Okay, so I understand better that you were saying the early sim builders did amazing things with prims and the ability nowadays to download complex pre-built meshes is not building as much as it is assembling which is not the same kind of skillset or creative challenge. If so, I agree that people have created really great builds using nothing but prims and as in real life, there is much to admire about those who’ve had to make everything from scratch, whereas much in today’s world comes ready made (re: your reference to Google [3D Warehouse]).

            I think, also, however, that mesh allows new approaches to creativity. The builder can create with more complexity and control than ever to realize an idea, and the builder can focus more on accomplishing an effect than worrying over the building blocks used in constructing that effect. I suspect mesh will attract some builders who have felt the tools in SL and Opensim were not sophisticated enough for their vision. For others, mesh will revitalize the marketplace for more highly detailed models. But, as you suggest, mesh also means objects that many will not be able to see. The question of leaving users behind who choose not to use a mesh-capable viewer is the more complex social issue. It seems to me that as with most areas of technology, improving content quality will motivate an increasing number of users to overcome their resistence to the newer mesh-capable viewers.

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               Being i been in opensims for some time now, I see lots of Mesh around. Does opensim always copy whats the next best thing from SL? Just curious being Mesh has been available in Opensims for some time now. Like a Monkey see Monkey do kinda thing. Its ok if you can’t build with prims or sculpts for that matter, Its not the end of the world just build what you build off world and import it in. If thats how you can only create content. We all know why SL does it, not because its new to SL but because its Low land impact. That is not the excuse in opensims thats why we are here anyways isn’t it???

            2. 

               I’m still not sure why you so strongly deprecate the activity of using mesh.

               As a creation technology it is the most detailed way to achieve full control over an object’s form. There is no copycat issue at stake here. It is a technology broadly used in all applications of graphics, including film, video, architecture, effects, games and more. Finally, (finally!), it has come to Opensim.

               I do imagine that you are commenting from the perspective that a certain authenticity will be lost because mesh capability also allows the import of content, no building required. However, given the broad range of purposes people bring to the Opensim platform, I think it makes more sense to give more options and look for authenticity in the results, as well as the means.

               If my challenge is to create a learning environment, the goal is teaching. It will be fantastic if I can find lots of pre-made content, as my purpose is to educate, not to build. On the other hand if I’m looking to create an interactive exhibit of automobile prototypes, I may want to build some realistic mesh objects that would be hard or impossible to construct accurately using only prims.

               It still seems to me that mesh has a valid place along with prims and sculpted prims in making rich immersive experiences.

            3. 

               I see your Point Lawrence, you mention a exhibit of automobiles I have them presently. around 30 in my grid some are Mine some come from other creators. I do see many errors in the sculpt builds which i have replaced with prims. I suppose its a sorta a challenge for me to make it out of prims and get the same or better look out of using prims. I really do appreciate Mesh builds but thats in my SL account where there apples to oranges in there look. I guess because of the physics SL uses. Maybe a bit off subject I have a theory in Vehicles in opensims why the mesh wheels dont like scripts. I would suggest trying to create a mesh wheel with 1 linkest set at X,Y,Z, at these numbers X=0.00 Y=0.00 and Z=90.00 if a wheel is not set at this coordinates it wont work. Maybe some Mesh builders can give this theory a try being its the same numbers used for Sculpts/Prims.

   3. 

      lolwhut?

   4. 

      If I understand your point correctly, you’re looking at building-with-prims as a certain art form which requires a certain skill set (beyond lots of talents), and this art form might become as defunct as the Dodo thanks to meshes.

      Hmm. Well, it’s like saying: “building a statue out of matchsticks and giving it as much realism as possible is a finer art form than doing it with marble and a chisel — anyone can do statues like that”.

      While certainly it’s much harder to do a statue out of matchsticks than out of marble, that doesn’t mean that sculptors using stone are, well, lesser artists, or that they can do it far quicker. They might, but it’s not a question of speed: it’s a question of medium.

      But I understand the argument of prim-building as a “lost artform”. There is some sense in that argument. I personally don’t think it’s so important, but, then again, I’m not an artist. And for me tools like Maya, 3DS, not to mention Blender (ugh!), or even SketchUp are far beyond my ability to comprehend and use — give me prims every day, it’s soooo much easier 🙂 Sure, I can’t build anything beyond sticking a few prims together, so my point is not really valid, but as far as I can understand, one thing is having the talent — which I don’t have — the other is having the tool, and comparing Blender to SL’s building tools is for me like programming a super-computer from scratch in machine assembly (something that Cray’s founder was used to do) compared to using a pocket calculator (it does sums easily, but that’s all it does).

      So I respect as much anyone who has mastered Blender and can create anything with it (while I can’t even draw a single cube after losing half a day reading tutorials), as much as anyone who can build a hyper-realistic castle (or anything else) just using prims (and not even textures). Both, for me, require an insanely sophisticated technique, and, of course, a lot of talent.

7. 

   I find mesh that bit easier than sculpts, so it is a bit (okay a lot) frustrating that people prefer to stay in pre-mesh viewers unable to see newer content. “Oh, you’re invisible” is not something I really enjoy hearing. I’ve taken to trying *not* to use mesh, but that’s not always possible or preferrable. Some things are just better/easier to do in mesh.

   My latest reaction was to make a build entirely in old-skool prims with a single sculptmap, if only to see what’s possible with them old tools that everyone can see. It was a fun experiment but I really would prefer to be able to unlock the full potential of mesh in Open Sim.