Fourth annual OpenSim grid survey

The results of the 2013 Hypergrid Business OpenSim Grid Survey are in, with 654 votes cast.

Just over 90 percent said they would recommend the grid to others, a slight increase from last year’s 87 percent, 8 percent said “maybe” and less than 2 percent said they would not recommend their grid.

Percent of respondents who would recommend their grid to others.

Percent of respondents who would recommend their grid to others.

This was up slightly from  87.4 percent who said they would “absolutely” recommend their grid to others in 2012, 87.7 percent in 2011, and 89.5 percent in 2010.

However, while this is a great statistic for OpenSim from a marketing perspective, it’s only to be expected. If people didn’t like the grid they were on, they wouldn’t stay there, and wouldn’t take this survey listing it as their primary grid.

Best overall score

Kitely came out on top for “How do you rate this grid overall?” with a 4.93 score and 84 votes cast. It ranked second in technology, and, surprisingly, third in community. Kitely is not known as a community-oriented grid.

Kitely was followed by AviWorlds, Zandramas, Littlefield, InWorldz, Metropolis, Avination, OSgrid, Virtual Highway, Island Oasis, DreamNation, and, last, by 3rd Rock Grid.

The rankings for AviWorldz and Zandramas, however, had the greatest margin of error since those grids had 16 and 10 responses, respectively.

"How would you rate this grid overall?"

“How would you rate this grid overall?”

There were other grids selected as primary grids in our survey, but they had less than 10 responses each, and so we’re not including their results. Those grids are 3rd LifeAnSky GridA Virtual WorldBrasil TropicalCraft WorldDorenas WorldEdMondoFrancoGridGerman GridLogicampLost ParadiseMintakaNara’s NookSimValley, the closed SirinHGpole grid, Tangle GridUFSGridValhalla Virtual, and Virtual Gay Kingdom.


The startup social grid Zandramas ranked best for community but — with only 10 responses — this rating is also the least definitive. Littlefield was in second place, followed by Kitely, Virtual Highway, AviWorlds, 3rd Rock Grid, Island Oasis, InWorldz, Dreamnation, Avination, and OSgrid.

OSgrid is a large non-profit grid with a strong focus on testing. It also had a change in management last year and some communication issues which helped contribute to bad feelings among grid residents.

Avination’s low community score is a surprise however, since this is a commercial, social grid with paid staff in place to help build in-world community.

"How would you rate your grid's community?"

“How would you rate your grid’s community?”


AviWorlds came out on top for content, followed by Littlefield, Zandramas, InWorldz, Island Oasis, Virtual Highway, Kitely, 3rd Rock Grid, Avination, Metropolis, OSgrid, and Dreamnation.

AviWorlds and Zandramas, again, had the fewest votes, so their leading positions may not necessarily be representative.

Littlefield is well-known for its community of content creators and its unique freebie shops attract visitors from all over the hypergrid.

InWorldz, as the busiest social commercial grid, also has OpenSim’s largest community of in-world merchants. Many merchants looking for a second location outside Second Life turn to InWorldz because of that grid’s content protection policies, and the fact that it has similar export restrictions as Second Life.

Dreamnation, as a brand new grid, should not be expected to have a great deal of content in place. OSgrid, which scored just a hundredth of a point above Dreamnation, is a non-profit grid focused on testing and development and does not actively promote in-world shopping and commerce.

"How would you rate your grid's content?"

“How would you rate your grid’s content?”


AviWorlds led in the support category, followed by Littlefield, Island Oasis, 3rd Rock Grid, Virtual Highway, Dreamnation, InWorldz, Zandramas, Metropolis, Kitely, Avination, and OSgrid.

Smaller grids typically have an advantage when it comes to support because, with fewer residents, there are fewer issues to resolve.

In addition, commercial grids have an advantage in that they have paid support staff whose job it is to deal with problems and complaints. Non-profit grids such as OSgrid are run by volunteers, and support is typically obtained from other users, via forums, discussion lists, and in-world meetings.

Again, Avination’s low showing is a surprise.

"How would you rank your grid's support?"

“How would you rank your grid’s support?”


AviWorlds led in the technology category, followed by Kitely, Littlefield, Zandramas, Virtual Highway, InWorldz, Metropolis, Island Oasis, Dreamnation, 3rd Rock Grid, Avination, and OSgrid.

I’m not sure why AviWorlds ranked the highest here, other than perhaps its small but passionate group of respondents voted it high in every category. Or perhaps it’s a reflection that it made the right choice in picking Zetamex as its hosting company. While many of the older, established grids, such as InWorldz and Avination run their own servers and regions, new grids are increasing turning to hosting companies like Zetamex and Dreamland Metaverse to handle the technology, while the grid owners focus on marketing, community building, and content.

Kitely earned its high technology ranking the hard way, with a succession of technological improvements this year. The grid currently offers regions capable of holding up to 100,000 prims, and 100 avatars, via a unique cloud-based, on-demand system. In addition, the grid recently launched its Kitely Market, the best web-based marketplace currently available for OpenSim grids, and plans to expand this marketplace to the hypergrid. This weekend, the grid also announced an upgrade to the latest version of OpenSim, 0.7.6, along with a list of bug fixes that they are donating back to the community.

Few other grids are as consistent and proactive in donating code fixes.

"How would you rate your grid's technology?"

“How would you rate your grid’s technology?”

OSgrid typically runs the latest, cutting-edge version of OpenSim, which may occasionally result in some bugs or instability. It is also the largest grid by land area, which puts stress on volunteer-run servers and systems. In addition, many regions are self-hosted — running on personal computers that may have slow processors, low bandwidth, or may be off most of the time. 

Most visited grids

We added up all the grids that folks either picked as primary grids, or that they said they had visited, and for the most part, the number of responses coming in was roughly in line with the reported monthly activity on the grid.

OSgrid was the grid that most users had visited, with 71 percent of respondents having been on that grid.

What percent of respondents visited each grid.

What percent of respondents visited each grid.

InWorldz was a close second with 67 percent, followed by Avination at 45 percent, Kitely at 36 percent, and Metropolis at 33 percent. 3rd Rock Grid was visited by 30 percent of respondents, Island Oasis by 26 percent, and 25 percent of respondents had visited their own personal grid — even though only about 1 percent of respondents considered it to be their primary grid.

After that, in decreasing order, came Craft, Virtual Highway, Littlefield, FrancoGrid, GermanGrid, AviWorlds, JokaydiaGrid, DreamNation, a company or school grid, Logicamp, Zandramas, Lost Paradise, Dorenas World, Tangle Grid, and SimValley. The last five had been visited by between 1 and 2 percent of respondents.

Grids that were visited by less than 1 percent of respondents included UFSGrid, Mintaka, SpotOn3D, World4Us, Fleepgrid, Nara’s Nook, New World Grid, Openvue, 3rd Life, A Virtual World, Adrean’s World, AnSky Grid, Avatar Sex Grid, Brasil Tropical, Bubblez, Digigrids, Edmondo, GerGrid, GermanGrid, MOSES, Olantica, OSCC, Roblox, Sanctuary, ScienceSim, Selea Core, Speculoos, StarGate, Stormcloud, Tundra 3D, VIBE, and Virtual Gay Kingdom. Since these were not listed as default choices in the survey, however, more people may have visited them but forgot to write them in. (Full list of currently active grids, with links to their websites, is here.)

Active vs visited 2013 survey chart

How many active users the grids reported last month, versus share of survey respondents who said they had visited the grid at some point in the past.


Comparing visit numbers to active user numbers, InWorldz seems to be able to convert its visitors to active users better than any other grid. It was visited by about two thirds of all respondents, and accounts for almost 40 percent of all active OpenSim users.

OSgrid was significantly less sticky, as were most other grids.

Survey methodology

All the statistics here are straight averages. Grids with less than 10 respondents were not included in the totals.

For folks worried about the grid stats being rigged, I have deleted some instances where people voted more than once. The majority of these cases looked accidental, as if the form had been submitted twice by mistake. There were also a couple of cases where the emails were invalid or fake. Grids that had a large number of submissions also had a wide variety of responses and comments — I didn’t see any evidence of ballot stuffing, with large groups of people giving top marks across the board for any particular grid.

There were a few exceptions. Non-English grids had fewer respondents than their traffic numbers would have predicted, possibly due to the language barrier, and the fact that they’re less likely to be readers of Hypergrid Business. This might not be the whole reason, however, since the French-language FrancoGrid, the German-language German Grid, and Craft were all well represented last year, but not this year.

Since these three grids did show up in the visited statistics this year, however, it could simply be that the users of those grids actually consider another grid their primary home.

Avination was also underrepresented in the survey this year, with only 11 responses, compared to 34 responses last year. As can be seen from the “visited” numbers, many of our readers have been to this grid but have decided, for one reason or another, not to make it their primary home.

Kitely had 84 responses this year, up from just 24 responses last year, and many more than its active user numbers would have predicted, a possible sign that its users have been happy with the recent improvements.

More than 200 respondents wrote in comments, some very detailed, about their experiences on the grid.

We’re reprinting the most representative comments here. Please keep in mind that the comments were submitted with the expectation of anonymity, so might express views which might not be expressed otherwise.

3rd Rock Grid

“A great live music scene and plenty of activities. Very friendly and a ‘grown up’s grid’ no griefing, biting or drama. A lot free content plus quality big name and small retailers… Good sim prices and free land commercial or mainland for any citizen who wants some. Owners online every day and are part of the 3RG community. The grid is upgrading as the technology is older than we would like as a population. Weekly community meeting and if you are a Star Trek fan there are two active chapters and 10 Star-trek sims and five-times-a-week roleplay.”

“This has been my home grid for over two years now. It has a small town or village atmosphere. What I mean is the kind of community where everyone knows each other and get along well.”:

“Too many people at concerts seem to crash the simulator. But since everyone is really friendly we make a joke of it and carry on!”


Only one of this year’s 11 respondents who considers Avination home wrote a comment.

“This grid would have gotten ‘Excellent’ on all points if it wasn’t for the fact the owners overprotection is hurting itself. I’m not talking about only the lack of marketplace, but also cashout limits… I wish Hypergrid Business would write a review about grids’ currency policies. This would hopefully motivate Avination and other overprotective grids to evolve. Currently this is what keeps larger businesses out of OpenSim– lack of trust.”


“This is a small grid that has a great skills and is growing and the population is very consistent.”


It would take a book to print all the comments left by InWorldz residents. A couple of people complained about empty regions and support but, for the most part, respondents were overwhelmingly happy about community and many mentioned that they felt at home on this grid.

“Whilst this grid is still in beta it is the most stable I have experienced.  The community is friendly and helpful.  The founders are involved and approachable and refreshingly open about future plans and even any issues or problems that may be affecting the community.  Registered two years go to just take a look but was so impressed we bought a sim on day one and stayed.”

“If Second Life had been run with as much care and concern for their customers as the InWorldz grid is, virtual worlds would have gone mainstream from the early days! The people at InWorldz get things right and truly care about their residents… It is nice to live in a virtual world that keeps their prices fair for the services that they offer. I’ve never felt overcharged. If I have a problem I don’t get a deaf ear. If I face griefers or copybotters, I know that they will work with me to make things right again…and be fair-minded to all parties. They are tough when it is needed, in a fair and legal way… Is this world perfect? No….but, really, what world is? Yes, there is drama as that happens whenever you get humans together. There is no more here then there is in any other virtual world I’ve been in…or the real world for that matter!”

“This grid is the grid to try after all the others, then you realize what you want from a virtual world and its founders and community. You will find bugs and annoying instances though they are small in comparison to the huge benefits that are there for all to see and enjoy.”

“More than anything it is the people that make InWorldz such a great place to be.  I also have enjoyed the higher prim count that has allowed me to truly bring my vision to life.”

“Just a few reasons I have been mostly in InWorldz for over three years: integrity and involvement of the founders; truly affordable sims; fantastically generous prim allowances; native mega and nano prims; free uploads; is an adult grid; continuing technological innovation and improvements on the virtual world experience; commitment to intellectual property integrity; a wonderful active art community; an outpost of Raglan Shire in InWorldz; my favorite virtual musicians play here; with no overpriced, prim chintzy land and uploads to fund my creativity has exploded and I have grown leaps and bounds in ways I never could have inside the cramped box that Second Life has become.”

“InWorldz is a world of marvelous technology and infinite diversity. From art to creative content to community support, I find this virtual home to be exceptional. Thanks to the founders, the development team and the many volunteers who make this the best of all possible worlds.”

Island Oasis

“I have been to many other opensim grids and have found my home in Island Oasis. The support I get here is unmatched. The community here really gives you that ‘I’m home’ feeling. This is definitely the best all around grid to have my business and my home. Keep up the good work Damean and Sugar.”

“I love the atmosphere and friendly helpful staff as well as the way the areas are built.”


Many respondents pointed out Kitely’s unique pricing model as a major benefit. Kitely runs its regions on demand, in the cloud, and stores them away when they are empty. As a result, the company is able to offer dramatically more land and prims for very low prices. Respondents also pointed to the Kitely Market, the coming hypergrid support, and the easy OAR region backups and uploads as attractive features.

“Sixteen regions just $35 a month.”

“As more people discover Kitely, it will improve on the one thing it does need and that is of course, a larger community.”

“Kitely Market has some excellent content on it already — my wallet has suffered accordingly. I particularly appreciate how content creators are enabling the ‘Export’ tag on variants of their products so that complete regions can be saved as OARs.”

“Great grid cannot wait for hypergate access.”

“It has the best land rates in the hypergrid.  Kitely is the best-kept secret that should no longer be a secret.”

“Kitely’s customer service is beyond exceptional at this point. You can ask a question almost anywhere on the web and get a response very quickly. They get some slack for aggressively pursuing questions, but all in all it’s better than the deafening silence tough questions can sometimes produce.”

“I’d recommend Kitely to everyone, but much more so to creators and people that have a land addiction. Once you get past the pay-per-minute hangup — or alternatively just go with a premium plan — it’s great to just go nuts on regions creating whatever you want. There’s no pressure to make tier with either sales or rentals, and you don’t have to worry about your stuff disappearing if you have an off month.”

“Kitely offers more innovative features, more prims, greater stability and the latest technology, all at the lowest price and it is growing. Other grids make promises, Kitely delivers.”

“The only thing that needs improvement is content. Content providers and merchants is what we need in Kitely. Further, I would like to see more people joining and building a real community.”


Littlefield is a mid-sized social grid that was originally best known for its alternative adult lifestyle community and content but has since grown into a well-rounded community group that serves diverse populations. It also happens to be an extremely well designed grid, with a strong core of content creators sharing their work with the hypergrid.

“I am a content creator on Littlefield, they have been very helpful as well as treating me as one of the family. It’s a great environment.”

“This grid is all about community.  Everyone made me feel at home right away.  Everything from the default avatar, to the stuff at the mall, to the free housing they provided was nothing but the best stuff I’ve seen in OpenSimulator.  I rented a sim within a couple days and was the best thing I could have done.  The grid runs great, the support is great, the prices are great.  I love Littlefield!”


Respondents lauded this French-language grid for its education focus and low prices.

“Logicamp has been an awesome space to create and develop my educational projects.”

“I recommend Logicamp for anyone who wants to start his own region at a very decent price. The server is hypergrid enabled, the technical support is very friendly and the owner is running it the best he can. Mainly Logicamp it’s very user friendly. Give it a try.”

Lost Paradise

“With just being a member of Lost Paradise for about six months I have found it the best grid I have been on.  The other members are friendly and very helpful with my learning and the grid owner will bend over backwards to make sure my sim runs the best that it can.”


Metropolis is a Germany-based grid, hypergrid-enabled, that became a favorite destination last winter after OSgrid’s management change.

“Metropolis is innovative. They have a web viewer and other features for residents. It is a busy grid with educational and artistic events and projects as well as other events.”

“I like the professional voluntary work from the operators and admins. My home-hosted sims are faster than lightning.”

Nara’s Nook

This is a new niche grid, focusing on serving writers.

“Very peaceful writer’s colony and much more.  Nice freebies.  Sample multiple regions of varied interests,  cool OpenSim tech, NPC’s (bots),  morphs,  holodecks and an undersea world.  Great books and interesting shops.  An active and growing community.”


Many respondents praised OSgrid’s openness and innovation, while some were concerned about content, technology, and community.

“I noticed that there had been several changes in OSgrid in the preceding year.  Several regions I was familiar with, mostly containing products produced by my favorite designers,  had disappeared.  Town hall meetings had been replaced by a suggestion box which had itself been abandoned.  And the already miniscule number of users in world seemed to have been more than halved– (this figure had been around 130 a day and was now around 60.  After checking some blogs, and talking to some residents, it became obvious that several residents had simply moved to other grids.”

“At the end of the day, I really just need a spot to park an island. For me, OSgrid fills this role just fine. I do keep great hopes for the whole open source virtual world concept as the new 3D internet, but there are numerous barriers to acceptance. Individual users who are looking for an alternative to Second Life do not last long on OSgrid for a number of reasons — lack of goods, few users, various technical issues with inventory etc. etc.”

“I’ve been running a few regions on OSgrid for a couple of years and think every highly of all the volunteers running it.”

“OSgrid is lots of regions – not many people. Not much chance to change that since most people blow through OSgrid to learn then move off onto their own space.”

“OSgrid provides me with an awesome platform of creative freedom, the largest OpenSim venue for my creations, and a very active science fiction community. I appreciate OSgrid’s stable grid infrastructure, cutting edge features, open access, hyperhrid, simulator version flexibility, personal inventory backups and sim backups. ”

“The fact that uploads are free and by running your own server, you can have your own land free, makes it a paradise for builders and for people to learn about virtual world technology.”


“They have a very good Dutch staff that respond very fast on problems.”

Tangle Grid

“Although it’s a new grid, it’s got life, good support, and great prices.”

“Fairly new grid, however regions are reasonable, there is a currency available and best of all, caring founders! This is one to watch 🙂 ”


“It is a unique grid since it is the only one oriented to Sci Fi theme offering the most amazing scenarios and possibilities for roleplay.”

Virtual Highway

“This is the most welcoming grid I have been to. Everyone is friendly. They have more parties than any grid I know. Virtual Highway believes in having fun like a grid should. Very supportive and generous to creators. The owners work really hard on maintaining and keeping current technology. I think I want to make permanent home here.”


“Zandramas is a ‘closed’ grid, people can on join on referral. Maybe this will change in the near future. But the fact that we are a ‘closed’ grid makes it not very interesting for copybotters and grievers to join. Which also has a positive effect on creators and the privacy of the community.
Zandramas just upgraded to the newest version of OpenSim, so this is a big plus. And we are growing, slow but certain.”

“This grid is just getting started but already things are falling into place nicely. The people here are just awesome and will always be there to help in any way possible, it can’t get any better then that!”


Related Posts'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China. Follow me on Twitter @MariaKorolov.

180 Responses

  1.' Hannah says:

    The page you get after hitting “submit” says “2012” and not “2013”, just FYI.

    • Thanks! I copied the 2012 survey form instead of starting with a blank form, and some stuff didn’t change! Plus, I found out that there are some changes I couldn’t make because Google updated the forms system. When I do the hosting survey in two weeks, I’ll start fresh! Learned my lesson!

  2.' Mush says:

    where is the actual survey? this is just a news item

    • I’ve been told that people using Firefox can’t see the survey. I haven’t been able to recreate the problem with Firefox on my own computer, so don’t know where to start fixing it!

      Can you try using Chrome to access this page?

      Or you can pull up the survey directly, at this URL:

      So far, over 250 people have voted, so the lack of access issue isn’t universal. If neither of the two above options work, please let me know and I’ll try to think of something else! Thanks!

      •' Xay Tomsen says:

        FYI I can’t see the form using Chrome. Other people might be having this problem. Might be worth putting a plaintext link in the main article somewhere.

          •' Vanish says:

            For what it’s worth, I’ve visited this page on Firefox in both OSX and Windows, and it shows fine. I’m thinking that some people might have disabled embedded content or deploy some adblocker that blocks google forms as well. Just a guess. (I’m running Ghostery and it shows fine though.)

          •' ZZ Bottom says:

            NO commercial closed grids should be on this survey!
            NO commercial closed grids should be on this survey!
            NO commercial grids that don’t add any of value to open sim community should be on this survey!
            That being said, Congrats Kitely for the fact that being a commercial grid didn’t stop You to give a lot to the rest of the open sim community!
            Also for avinations, dead or not, its contribute to Open sim code will not be forgotten!
            Also to Littlefied, You are missed in OSgrid!
            And for all the others that enable Hypergrid!
            And of course to OSgrid where i did learn how to host a region and own all i learned!
            And last, to the thousands of stand alone grids that make the joy of their users!
            Tks Diva, Ener, open worlds!
            Now back to Second Life mainland, a diff way of enjoying the metaverse!

      •' eekee says:

        I can see the survey on this page in Seamonkey, but not in Firefox. Both are based on Gecko, the main difference is Seamonkey is older, dating from September last year, while Firefox is up to date. Versions:

        Seamonkey: 2.12.1 (includes “Firefox/15.0.1” in its user agent.)

        Firefox: 25.0.1

        I’ve seen other sites which have trouble with recent Firefox versions; it’s annoying. Interesting to see Xay say Chrome has a problem too, makes me wonder if it’s some incompatibility introduced with HTML 5 rather than being any one browser’s fault.

        •' Minethere says:

          I have no issues with Chrome Version 31.0.1650.57 m

          •' eekee says:

            Curious. I thought it might be AdBlockPlus doing it to me, but I just disabled that altogether, reloaded, and it’s still the same. (Not that I’m proud of running AdBlockPlus, it took nearly 10 years before adverts got bad enough that I couldn’t put up with them any more.)

          •' eekee says:

            Found it. I clicked the link to open the survey in a new tab, and was presented with a log-in form for Google. Seems you have to be logged in to Google to see it.

          • I just signed out of Google, but the survey still shows up for me — both the embedded one and the stand-alone one. Tried again with IE (which I never use, and don’t have any Google credentials saved on). Still can’t get the problem to come up.

            Must be the age-old law, “Problems immediately disappear when you get to the mechanic’s.”

          •' eekee says:

            Probably! Hehe.. Google are a bit odd about when they ask you to log in. It may be just when they’re more or less sure it’s you.

      •' R says:

        It works fine her ein firefox. but sofar i cannot fill the survey.
        It would be more easy if i could enter more grids with ranking number. For now i dont know wich grid really to choice. Because the opensim grid am logging in most is not saying its the grid i like the most. But right now no other option availabvle to add regions. until i have my own final running.

  3.' Lani Global says:

    The grid I visit most often is OSGrid. I appreciate the stable grid servers that OSGrid provides. As the huge “central hub” of the OpenSim metaverse, OSGrid also has a large active community of Sci Fi enthusiasts and it attracts awesome content creators.

    I have visited other OpenSim grids, mostly via HyperGrid, and some via grid accounts. I don’t see any advantage to the Walled Garden grids and those grids that don’t have HyperGrid. It is important to be able to save and backup my inventory as IAR files and my regions as OAR files. The grids that don’t allow backing up my data or portable inventory are really not worth visiting, much less having a home or store on them.

    •' Minethere says:

      Very true Lani. I too see no point in having much to do with closed commercial grids, though I do visit a couple of them due to having old accounts and liking the grid owners, and for a couple of live performers I like.

      But being held hostage by some grids old tech style commercialism nonsense is a waste of time.

      The only commercial grid I actually favor is Kitely since they at least allow OARs and say they will open to HG soon. I think it will be fun to HG into and out of Kitely, the first commercial grid to do this.

      So I used the vote twice option here.

      •' AviWorlds says:

        Hi Minethere. AviWorlds is HG enabled already and we have our own currency AV$. You dont need to wait 45 days to exchange it and we need you there if you want we give you free space also. And you can connect your own regions too. 🙂

        •' Minethere says:

          Heya Alex-)) Yes, a friend had told me you reopened to hg…I really think that is a good idea.

          What is your hg address and I will try to drop by and look around today or tomorrow or so. I have had to cut back substantially lately due to rl issues though.

          I don’t have the proper router to connect my own simulator unfortunately…I use Zetamex connected in Metro. Is he allowed to do them there?

          What am I needed there for? Free space like another shop/office? If so, I might could find the energy to setup one again using my Metro avie…not sure when tho.

          I don’t really need anything more but I can look around via hg as I said, but ppl can find me @ or various other social sites.

        •' Roger says:

          Is their now a guarantee if I boght land you will not close down again or at least anytime soon?

          •' AviWorlds says:

            If that question was made to me; I can say that the grid will not close. The grid is stable and growing. Very healthy community. I can say that AviWorlds has found what it needed. We are now developing other things into it. good things for our community.
            I am also spending more time in advertisements for the grid. We are getting a lot of visitors from other tgrids too.

  4.' MidnightRain Glas says:

    Thanks for giving me a chance to do a shout out for the grid that most meets my needs as well as community spirit in everything we do.. Great founders that do the best job they can..bottom line is I would not live anywhere else..and I have lived else took me all of 15 or so minutes to know I was moving over to Inworldz and that was in Sept. 2010 from the big city……I have never looked back…

  5.' Beth says:

    Go team Inworldz the best grid ever ! ! ! your not just a resident but family here ! ! !

    •' Roger says:

      No worry’s Beth we have more active residents then all these freebie grids combined this year we win (Flawless Victory) , heck maybe every year for now on the way mom explained it…as SL Collapses and we take its place their is no stopping the future..Wooohaaa

  6.' Kelly says:

    Inworldz is great=) I love my home its perfect a big thanks for this=)
    Soon sl turd grid will just be a memory’yayy’
    resident in the grid since 2011…….best move I ever made hands down

    •' Minethere says:

      What the heck is an “sl turd grid”?????? [you got that one in the stats Maria?]

      •' Xayesha says:

        perhaps the type grid referred to (I can’t bring myself to type it) is what happens when a well known bad thing hits the fan

        •' Minethere says:

          Yea, I figured it was a reference to sl. Tho I have not logged in there is some time now, I never had any issues with sl at all.

          I keep being surprised that some OS commercial grid folx do though, but on the other hand, they want ppl and content from them….it seems kinda strange thinking to me.

          Anywho, I trust you are doing ok Xay-))

          •' wolftimber says:

            I still log into SL on occasion as a personal friend of mine is there whom I now host a sim for, and other friends are there as well.
            Now that I built a new box with a good GC it seems SL loads fast and I don’t get the lag I always got everywhere there, turned out the minimal OEM GC is what couldn’t handle the load all this time and would cause agonizing lag and slow loading every time I stepped off my own sims, I was lucky to get as much as 12-15 fps though to it’s credit it did load the scenes and they looked reasonably good.

      •' Roger says:

        Would it ever hurt for you to say something nice about us just once,?
        Let it go if not for us then for you.

      • noname@noname.noname' Not funny says:

        SL turd grid ? must be inworldz..

        •' Roger says:

          Well if you say so but small remarks in obscure forums will still not change the facts that we are booming while the rest of you who want everything free is starving and in decline!
          sure add more regions plus NPC’s but that’s all you have plus
          a mountain of content that does not belong to you.

  7.' Xayesha says:

    InWorldz continues to surprise me with it’s constant efforts to surpass expectations. It’s possible that, with me at least, the grid is a victim of it’s own superior exhortations.

    I’ve come to expect so much, I often find myself being the one who asks pointed questions. This is simply the result of me being spoiled I think. The place is that good.

  8.' Trixie Noel says:

    The grid I call home is Virtual Highway. Great content, great people and low prices. In my opinion none of the others I have tried compare at all.

    •' Adam Time says:

      The one thing I have to say about Virtual Highway it it is a class act the founders are sincere mature people that understand the need to let the people on that grid do there own thing.

      I enjoy going there I wish I had more time to spend there.
      some of my favorite friends from inworldz went there and have become corner stones of the grid.

      you know you have support when the owners give you their skype.
      it is not a new grid just a grid that will be around. And they care and really try to meet your needs.
      Honest from day one I have to say very honest people.
      Virtual highway if it last many more years will be the standard of service and

      openness .

      Thank you Trixie for all your hard work and wonderful help.

      •' Trixie Noel says:

        Thanks Adam. I couldn’t agree more, Tiffany and Logger, the founders of Virtual Highway, are amazing. They work tirelessly on behalf of the residents, to make the grid a wonderful place. It was a pleasure to meet you and I wish we could see you in there more Adam 🙂

        •' Tiffany Magics says:

          Thank you both for your wonderful comments. We believe in hard work and honesty, and will continue to do all we can to help people. However, the real reason Virtual Highway is such a great grid is the people who choose to call it their virtual home. We appreciate and thank all of you for everything that you do. Tiffany Magic

          •' Cherokee Kuhn says:

            I agree with Adam. The founders are honest, and wish to make our home Virtual Highways a safe place to create and injoy each others company. I have met some wonderful new friends there. So glad to have been made a part of the group of people to see this place grow to what we all know it can be. Tiffany and Logger thanks for the hard work we know , have heard and saw the long hours your two are putting there, in making VH a fun place to call home

      •' Gene Call says:

        Thanks Adam,Trixie and Cherokee
        with Guys like you on the grid it makes all the work worth while Thanks

  9.' Rosie Redwing says:

    Hey everyone {Insert smileys here}

    Be sure to visit Inworldz the true alternative to SecondLife
    Get a full region with 35,000 prims for 75.00 dollars a month
    or 3 full regions or more 45,000 prim region for 70.00
    no set up fee,
    Not sure you want to buy ? well outside of SecondLife we have the largest
    modern estates to choose from with even lower prices !

    SecondLife without the drama or high costs !
    Stop in to find out the secret everyone has been talking about
    {Insert smileys here}


    •' Guest says:

      Avination is a better buy for those needing a paid closed grid, great staff, my sims always ran well there.

      How much does a region cost in Avination?
      They charge only $60 per month for a full sim and no setup fee. It supports up to 45.000 prims and has a standard 256×256 space of 65536 square meters.

      Typically sims are set up and ready to log onto in minutes after payment is made.

      More info on land prices can be found here;

      •' Wayfinder says:

        Look I’m not here to hurt your feelings kid but lets have a talk,
        Avination is a crippled grid they will not even respond to mssg’s on the forums they have it shows they could care a less,
        They are only one and a third the size of what they were last year in regions and people they have been reduced to a BOT Population,
        Very clear soon they will go out of business if not it will be a slow and painful death just like 3DMEE,
        The english cookiecrumbhead she brought a knife to a gunfight long ago and lost! she could not handle the elevated heat in the kitchen, mmhhaahhh folks trust me on this, just save dem dollars.

        • In this survey so far, we’ve had 10 respondents from Avination, compared to 150 from InWorldz. Now, maybe it’s the time difference or something, with Avination based in Europe, but I expected a lot more people to vote.

          Especially since 44% of respondents said they had visited Avination — not too far from InWorldz’ 50%. (OSgrid was the most visited grid, at 59%). (So far, at least — votes are still coming in.)

          Otherwise, the number of responses coming in are pretty much in line with monthly traffic figures. InWorldz has the most respondents, followed by OSgrid, Kitely, Metropolis, Dreamnation (which is unexpected — they’re a pretty small grid), Littlefield, AviWorlds, Island Oasis .. and then Avination.

          Another explanation is that people spend time in Avination — but spend more time somewhere else, and don’t consider Avination their primary home.

          One thing that bothers me is that, in previous years, I saw a lot of comments from Avination residents. Not necessarily glowing comments, but comments. This time around, not one person who says Avination is their primary grid has left a comment. Compared to say, 3rd rock, which had only a few more responses — but quite a few comments explaining why they liked their grid.

          Even Lost Paradise, Tangle Grid, Zandramas and UFSGrid residents — who had to write in their grids — left comments. (Residents of InWorldz, Kitely, Littlefield, OSgrid, and Metropolis wrote novels.)

          If Avination residents are reading this — please take the survey, and use the “additional comments” space to tell us what’s happening on the grid, and why you decided to base your virtual life there.

          And if InWorldz residents are reading this — you’re good! I’m going to have to work hard to whittle down all the comments to a few representative ones, so that my readers can get through all of them before global warming takes us all down. 😀

          •' Minethere says:

            I think it may be more complex than you say, in some regards.

            As you know, most of the Metaverse is quietly just doing their own thing, and most do not even know of this survey.

            The lines of communications are disparate and widely spread out. There are few ways to communicate across the spectrum and none of them controlled but more freedom of expression types of things.

            The commercial grids, especially inwz, are extremely competitive, sometimes negatively so and have well-defined, tightly controlled methods of communications to their customers.

            Some commercial grids are much more laid back, in a more lais·sez faire type of commercialism.

            In other words, rather than take a direct in-your-face approach they simply point out this survey, and just leave it at that, or just agree and add comments when their customers take the initiative.

            So things such as this are going to be, by definition, more skewed towards those who stand to make the most money, and are driven to do whatever they can to obtain it.

            Which is fine, it is the way of the world…just more complicated than many see it as, is all.

            Global warming? Maybe that has something to do with all the darn acorns I had falling on my land recently….tons of ’em.

          •' Xayesha says:

            I think most people, from any grid, who’ve left comments concerning the primary grid they occupy do so from a sense of satisfaction or dissatisfaction with their VR home rather than any concern as to the profits of said grid or lack thereof.
            In other words, I either like a place or not, I could care less as to whether it’s making money or hemorrhaging cash.
            I seriously doubt any amount of pressure or controlled methods of communication could alter my viewpoint in that regard.

          •' Minethere says:

            Yes, of course, Xay, from a regular customer of any grid one likes, they would most often think this way.

            But I speak as someone who travels the Meta, from a perspective of seeing all sorts of grids, and how they operate. I speak in more overall general impressions of grids, not the regular customers inside them who like them for various and sundry reasons.

            Although you can see my disqus here for a lot of my thinking nowadays, or join, or see my g+ account, briefly, and very generally speaking, I see things this way.

            Once I thought sl was the only virtual grid, then I heard murmurs of other grids, then I found other commercial grids and I thought that was all there was, then I found the free Meta and running my own simulator instances and roaming the hypergates, which is where my primary interests are now.

            Within that broad brush generalization, I have other various opinions on things related to the Meta, as a whole.

            I am no longer interested in being held to one single grid. My own niche is more wide reaching and traveling and seeing awesome things done by fascinating people…I see it as my own evolving nature with this vr stuff.

            So this is what I am speaking to, the overall Meta…since Maria had mentioned inwz, I only used it as one example…it could just as easily have been other commercial grids [and is], I just happen to have spent time in that grid and recall more of it than other commercial grids.

            It does not matter to me that some stay only in one grid, whether free or commercial, or that some do not even know how to do their own simulator instances in the free Meta, or whatever one may think of this all…I believe in choices and options and transparency and freedom, overall.

          •' Adam Time says:

            I have had the most fun going to Metropolis grid OMG what a party place. The Diverse language is a big deal the way people interact like a new friend.

            I had a chance to do a video of them. And realized I goofed up up on my capture program it took me over a month to reformat and get the video up, they were very patient people and were very happy to see the work when done.


          •' Minethere says:

            Yea, that was so fun Adam, and yes they are nice there. It is due to not having all this content strife issues…all that stuff just causes so many side issues, mostly silly.

            Metro is just laid back, does it own thing, welcomes everyone and is just plain old fashioned nice.

            Since most folx there run their own simulators, it is mainly a DIY thing and we like it that way.

            Kinda like osg but more community based…and so many cool regions, so many nice people creating, Art galore…oh, hey, let me put my blog in I do on them…lol


            Thanx for the segue and hope to see you again there soon-)) I know Franzi would enjoy that…

          •' wolftimber says:

            Nah, the little inworldz clique just has all their little pals come and vote and do the surveys to puff up the numbers, I had nothing but problems with inworldz, from being “dissed” by elenia and her clique on the official forums, in world too, along with sims that never ran right from day one and I know I’m not alone on that.
            If the only choice was Avination, Inworldzzzz and SL I’d choose Avination 1st, SL 2nd and if the only other alternative was inworldzzzz or closing up “shop” with opensim entirely and deleting it all off my computers- that’s what I’d do.

          • I’d agree with you except for the fact that the InWorldz scores are all over the map — the folks voting have all sorts of different opinions about the grid, and many of them expound on that in depth in the comments. Don’t forget that this is an anonymous survey. Grid owners might get their folks to go out and vote, but they can’t tell them what to say.

            As I’m writing this, InWorldz had 160 responses, OSgrid had over 100, and Avination had … 11.

            Even DreamNation had 30, and their residents had to write in the grid name.

            Does Avination have mostly non-English-language users? If so, I can understand the under-representation — the French, German and Italian-language grids FrancoGrid, Logicamp, Craft, Dorena’s World and GermanGrid each had less than 10 votes.

            The Avination owners were certainly aware of this survey — I sent them an announcement about it, and they emailed me back.

            If you know anyone who hasn’t voted, let them know: I’m shutting down the voting tonight at midnight, eastern time, and running the stats tomorrow. Thanks!

          •' wolftimber says:

            Surveys don’t mean a whole lot, especially as you say- many grids are under represented for several reasons, one is their residents are primarily European and/or non English speaking. Metropolis for example is based in GERMANY, with much of the residents and all in German.
            Other reasons include not even knowing about (or caring) this web site, or the survey enough to even bother with coming here and filling the survey out knowing it doesn’t amount to anything of real world importance.

            It’s been my experience over the years with things like surveys that llike voting in elections- a small fraction of the whole even bothers, the other 80% are happy to sit back and let the 20% vote or fill out surveys.

            100 surveys from osg out of 3,500 “active” users?

            Inworldz, 160 filled out surveys out of 7,201 “active” users? Avination shows 1,821 “active” users and 11 surveys, given the numbers you cite- proportionally the surveys completed per 1000 “active” users are not far off with those three, but it doesn’t even amount to 3% of the ACTIVE users let alone the account holding numbers these grids all claim they have.

            Broken down:

            OSG 2.8%
            Inworldzzzz 2.2%
            Avination 0.6

            Whether it’s 2.2% or 2.8% or 0.6% doesn’t matter, the numebrs are still far too low to be an accurate representative.
            The logged in concurrently numbers are the ones that show what’s happening and as I remember neither inworldzzz or avination ever showed much more than 125 logged in at any one time, osg even less, usually the numbers were half that.

            People are not going to rush out and buy a hosted sim based on an annual web site survey, they are going to grid hop from one grid to another and choose mostly based on where their FRIENDS hang out.

            There’s more to a grid than numbers, a substantial one with me is how I as a resident is treated, everything else is a secondary issue.

            No matter how nice the showroom window, products or prices were I would never patronize a store whose sales people either ignored me, were of no help, or went out of their way to annoy me or make me feel I was either not welcome or a burden on them, and that was the case with inworldzzz.
            Avination staff on the other hand were extremely welcoming, helpfull, friendly, and my sims installed instantly on payment and always ran exceptionally well.
            The greatest grid in the world doesn’t mean much if it has a dingbat who “patronizes” and “disses” people in their public forums and in world.

            The ONLY reason I am not there today on Avination with at least 2 sims is because I host my own sims from home.
            Another issue with inworldzzz was the fact they were selling “used” sims sans the $75 setup charge, the actual effect of this was no one could sell their own sims because the grid owner was undercutting the residents by offering used (abandoned) sims for $75 with no set up fee and the month’s tier included.
            Anyone doing the math can easily figure out that if you had a sim you wanted to ditch you lost money on it, in most cases all of it because no one is going to pay $75 for a sim with half the month’s tier used up when they can get one for the same price and a full month included.
            I knew one lady whose sim name was her registered business name, and she was furious after abandoning it that it was sold “used” with the name intact and they refused to change it.

          • It’s true that response rates for surveys are low, especially if the people taking the survey don’t get anything out of it. 🙂 I’m actually pretty happy with 600 responses — it’s 3% of the total user base, and 3% is pretty much in line with industry standard response rates.

            I wish there was a European version of Hypergrid Business, so we could make these surveys a joint effort. If anyone knows of French or German sites that cover OpenSim like we do, please let me know — I’d love to share content and cooperate in other ways.

          •' Roger says:

            Hi Wolftimber, I have no memorys of you in inworldz but sorry it did not work out its just sometimes it can take awhile in building and planning if you would have been great if you gave it time by sticking around then you would be one of the happy faces,….As for avination it is sad that the grid collapsed and so many residents are losing dreams but to be a good true friend to the ones you still have their you sould inform them so they can prepare not to be in the final storm,
            … Solution just round a bunch of them up then contact the founders maybe they will offer a one time ‘Survivers Discount’ to those effected so they can come to the place they belong, it really is worth a shot if you have a open mind.

          •' wolftimber says:

            I had a completely different user name on that grid and I was there for about 10 months to maybe a year.
            I moved to Avination then.
            The scene in there went well beyond any kind of repair or repatriation, I would not return there today if they gave me the two sims I had, for free, it’s not the grid that’s the problem it’s the FOUNDERS and the “clique” group, a small group of women who would gang up on people they either didn’t like, or who didn’t “fit” their little group on the forums.

            Avination has not “collapsed” and I periodically log in there, they have around 650 regions which was been a stable number early on and then it suddenly grew the same as inworldzzz did, and then both began losing regions at a rapid rate over time back to a mostly levelled-off figure.

            Dec 2012
            Avination: 590
            InWorldz 1168

            Jan 2012
            Avination: 603
            InWorldz: 883

            Dec 16, 2011:
            Avination: 629 regions
            InWorldz: 844 regions

            June 2011
            Avination 1008
            InWorldz 887

            Dec 2010
            Avination: 152
            Inworldz: 719

            Dec 2009
            InWorldz : 130 regions

            There was a time slot when both grids shot up to around 1300-1400 regions and then began declining, Avination however has always averaged around 650 regions and that’s about what it is today.
            Inworldzz numbers are skewed in part by the huge number of self sponsored regions- 206 today, and then the water sims as well I would not “count” as real regions.

          •' Roger says:

            Founders are very generous people most times the issues is a lack of communication from a resident because the founders are not mind readers enough to see the issues they know nothing about, forum chat can often be misinterpreted or communicated in a way thats confusing,
            ..If you felt you had a bad experience you sould just contact them you might be surprised how humble your requests will be met with.often expressed frustration on a forum will not be a solution to solve the issues you felt wrong on,
            …So best thing is to log in and give them a chance to fix things plus you might be surprised at just how far inworldz has come into the future as they even have a deformer now that not even SL piggybanks have,….In a nutshell just one more chance wolftimber? you have nothing to lose only gain!

          •' wolftimber says:

            Roger, you have absolutely NO idea on this, this was not some “miscommunication” this was blatant disregard, “dissing” and sarcastic comments made to me BY those involved and on the official forums at the time.
            In fact after I left, I went back a while later, I guess 2-3 months later to clean out my inventory and landed on the landing sim, just happened to land in chat range of elenia who then sent me an IM demanding to know what I was there, when I said I was there to clean out my inventory since I had downloaded or exported what was mine previously, and the comment then was “afraid we’ll do something to it?”
            Very unfriendly, hostile people and clearly not any kind of “misunderstanding”

            Maybe this post will show you a clue about the behavior, it includes the actual url to the post as well:


          •' Roger says:

            Wolftimber, What I found by reading that was a very honest reply as a business person, also the parts that were highlighted just seemed to show she is capable of looking at things from a different perspective,…Good gosh I looked for for the thread but could not find it but I know first hand they have cleaned up the forums by removing old threads, banning those who had the control of children, they had even went so far as closing the forums for a period of time then invited the diehard trolls to a new private forum so to help keep the inworldz public forums friendly for everyone, ALOT of effort to make things right
            trust me I know the real story behind it all,
            ….You have been hurt some how it can be seen and understood as everyone has a certain amount of time they have to deal with heartache but making a fuss on a forum anywhere will not help also maybe looking at it from another angle that irrational behavior will never solve anything,
            ….I highly recommend contacting the founders to clear it up even if you are still elsewhere because you will feel better, by getting the things eating you off your chest that’s the point even here we can make it a productive experience if you let it be.

          •' wolftimber says:

            The way I saw it, the one post I highlighted is just the symptom of the much larger problem which was allowed to go on as can be seen by the statement:

            “there is an amazing amount of people who have said that our forums led them to not come here, to leave here, or otherwise not expose themselves to the treatment they’ve seen here with others”

            That proves it’s not just “me” or “sour grapes” but that I’m one of “an amazing amount of people” (whatever number that might have been) What number could be considered “amazing”? I wouldn’t say 3 or 5 or even 10 constitudes the critera for the use of the term “amazing”, I would say the number was in the dozens plus a few times that many who never complained or emailed anyone and simply quit and left and moved elsewhere or didn’t even bother to register or buy a sim and simply went elsewhere, the total number will never be known.
            Threads were removed and changes were made solely because it was affecting business in a negative way, there was no altruistic motives behind it untill the whole thing came to a point where people were emailing and posting they were leaving the grid or were not going to buy sims because of what was going on.

            Then there was the instance where a 14 year old minor was in the grid and long story short, he was known to be a minor and allowed to remain, on my older backup drive I still have the logs showing this.

            In my case it does not matter what steps were taken afterwards, it’s a lot like closing the barn door after the horses ran off- too little too late.
            You seem like a nice person, and your posts are very pleasant, however, I have absolutely no interest or intent of ever contacting or having anything to do with inworldzz, it’s founders, or people comprising the “clique” group that was part of that scene back then ever again- they have all gone way beyond the top in many ways which oncluded in world, on blogs, and forums.
            I walked away from them and their rat’s den idiocy 2-1/2 years ago.

          •' Adam Time says:

            This is a business forum and this is a business answer

            can,t agree with you more. I just keep two stores there and stop in and
            check the account. After the interaction with the founders I found they
            have no clue how to communicate with a customer. But instead collected
            there IP’s so I knew what alt was who for what avi. I was amazed what I

            So I disengaged from promoting the world.

            sit back and watch Wayfinders alt’s bounce around and all the other key
            people. I realized I was in direct competition with people that had to
            much control over my product.

            How do you handle that . instead of 3k RL a year you take it down to 10 percent of that.

            That.s how you handle it.

            little note while I am promoting Snoots dwagon of Dwagon forge I have Wayfinder with a can of Vaseline. bending me over.

            All those big events we put on and shows I thank you for revealing your self and your true business.

            I am sure the largest land owners of that grid will continue that practice. Why not it a cyber world .

          •' wolftimber says:

            Oh yes, sounds a lot like the makeup of the “clique” I mentioned, but I know some of those involved had blogs and they were definitely individual people not one or two with a myriad of alts and sockpuppets.
            The sockpuppets are easy to spot usually, they are brand new yet seem to know everyone there and far too many details for someone new, and just jump right into a specific narrow topic.

          •' Minethere says:

            Just a show of support for ya Wolf-)) As you know, I know of similar things. But it is ok, they can have their little fiefdom and those of us with our eyes open can do other, cooler things, yes?-))

            It used to bother me a bit that some in that grid just do not see that Beth is the real problem there, and just make excuses for her. I would say that grid would do better if she was gone, but that could not happen, so, it is what it is.

            But people like her build up bad karma and life will eventually show them the errors of their way….life has a way of doing that, tho sometimes ppl are not able to see this, that is fine also.

            In any case, the vast majority of folx are out in the free meta, as you and I are, and that they do not know of this survey [or even this site] is of no concern.

            Also, I am sure you realize that this guest/anon “roger” is just tweaking you…I use those types who cannot stand up with their known avie name just as conduits for whatever it is I wish to say, or just ignore them.

            I went to this cool party yesterday…


          •' wolftimber says:

            Thank you Miney!
            I had to think a bit on who “Beth” was since there is a “Beth” in this thread, then I remembered just now who you meant and you are right on that, I know you are because I have logs and know what I’ve personally seen with my own eyes, plus I did save a lot of those posts from the forum before they were deleted as I remember.
            Roger seems nice, I don’t see his posts quite the same way you appear to in this thread, I see it as being totally out of the loop on the history which is a given since the inworldzzz thing went on 2-3 years ago. That’s a long time in virtual worlds, people come and go rapidly.

          •' Minethere says:

            yes, true, and it’s all good-))

          •' Roger says:

            Thank you Wolftimber, I do try to keep an open mind to help with any issues people have and as you stated it has been a few years so much has changed since we first opened,
            …..Mistakes were made plenty a assure you in the early years but over time we have learned to be a better place for residents that’s why we have not only survived but one of the few if not only grids to earn triple digit numbers,
            …Just be aware there are some online with clear metal health issues who might try to draw you into some type of fantasy world please try to see that as being associated some of these well known types who could couse you trouble not only on forums but in other grids as these Delusional Fantasys can be destructive and hurt your online experience if these types draw you in to type of sickness they suffer from,

            …I wish you well in your online life Wolftimber and sould you ever choose to rejoin inworldz you will always have a home again this friend I can guarantee (smiles)

          •' wolftimber says:

            I’m not new to being on-line Roger, I’ve been on-line since 1994 and seen it all, there was even a MUCK you telnetted into back then that was very much like opensim but sans all grapics as it was text/command line operated.
            I helped moderate a 5000 member mental health/health forum and seen it all from girls who cut themselves, bi-polars, manic, suicidal, depressed and delusional people, none of this is new to me.
            Thanks just the same but I will never return to inworldzzz any more than I would return to OSG when they remain under the same ownership.
            I return the well wishes however.

          •' eekee says:

            How you can have been online for as long as you claim without ever developing the ability to spot such obvious trolls as Rosie Redwing and “Wayfinder” up there, is beyond me. If it’s the truth, then I’m sorry but you’re telling me you’re such a bad judge of character and the written word that I can have no reason whatsoever to take your opinion seriously. I’m sorry you got burned, but someone was going to.

            I went to see what the big trouble on Inworldz forums was, and even though I was only seeing the aftermath, it was clear many of the people posting had somehow lost their status as rational thinking beings when they typed their posts. “Facts” were coming out of peoples arses and being taken up by the majority. It was incredible to watch. Even for me as the son of a severely mentally ill woman, this was spectacular! (And not in a good way, just in case that was in any doubt.)

            I also think it’s important to note that the big trouble started with a single troll post even smaller than Rosie Redwings post up there. I thought that an obvious troll too, but even Wayfinder Wishbringer (the real one) was drawn in by it. Maybe I’m just unusually good at staying away from troublesome people and their forum posts, I don’t know.

          •' wolftimber says:

            What makes you think I DIDN’T peg those as trolls? with a name like redwing especially? you DO know what “redwing” implies, right? I am very familiar with “wayfinder” as well, both the real one and the fake, you’ll notice I didn’t bother addressing either one directly in my comments here but simply added my counter view here.
            As for the forum, now you begin to see the problem there that was allowed to go on for months, the “clique” I spoke of, you get into an argument with one or they don’t like you for some reason, and the rest of the gang jumps on you and runs you off.

            It was only when this all began to affect the business itself that they stepped in, by then I and others had already left the grid and abandoned our sims.
            In my case they lost about $200/mo as a result.

          •' Rosie Redwing says:

            Just some facts because you do not know me wolftimber,
            my last name is named after my favorite bird species !LOL
            You say you left inworldz because you were treated bad but then you are here calling me a troll over my one post for supporting our grid so its ok to treat me bad ? LOL

            It is very clear & not needed for me to point out further your

          •' wolftimber says:

            Google what earning your “redwings” means and then add the “Rosie” to the term and it begins to make sense how those who are familiar with the term see it and have a fairly good idea why some avatars would choose that combination, if that’s not applicable to your situation then I’m sorry, but I didn’t invent the term any more than I converted the UK term for a piece of wood to attack gay people with.

            You might look to eekee’s comment above my reply to see where the original calling you a “troll” designation CAME FROM.
            There were/are a number of “Rosies” and variations on the name in that grid who WERE part of the trash, attack and burn clique, I don’t make it my obsession to keep track of every single avatar name across 37 different grids.
            I left inworldzz for several reasons, a big one was being “dissed” by the founder, why would I continue paying her over $200 cash a month to be treated as any less than a paying customer for two sims that never ran right from day one?

          •' Rosie Redwing says:

            Sorry you will not lead me on into an argument to try to
            prove whatever your view on Inworldz is {Smiles}
            Have a great day everyone!
            Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year {Waves}

          •' wolftimber says:

            Ive made abundently clear how I feel about the grid and why, my intent was/is not to “lead” you or anyone else into an argument, you jumped on me for the troll remark towards your name which was actually originally made by eekee, I showed you WHY someone might consider the rewing name trollish on-sight, I didn’t choose the name or it’s other meaning that is well known.

          •' Minethere says:

            Actually, I suspect anyone who does not use an open disqus account where ppl can easily click their name and see more of what they have said in places.

            I do that with my own blog using disqus, no guest accounts, they annoy me and I see no point in allowing them.

            If a person cannot take the few minutes to make a disqus account, at the very least, why give them the time of day unless one just uses them as a conduit to say what we want to say anyways.

            Then to further mess things up, some do make accounts, just to come in to places and cause issues…which is why I also look at their disqus history. And some also make it private.

            Of course, all who do such things are not into causing issues, so each one has to be taken at face value, and a decision made as to comment back to them, or comment to another who commented back to them [ergh…not sure if that makes any sense…lol!!!]

            But, really, if someone feels a certain way about things, then they should be forthright enough to stand behind what they say…if not, they are really just nobodies with no morals.

            Anywho, not to you Timber, as I know you know all this-))

          •' wolftimber says:

            A lot of what you say is true, though I believe the “guest” accounts are not guest accts in the true sense of the word, comments revert to an un-owned “guest” status if you delete them from your discus dashboard, it doesn’t actually remove/delete the comments where posted, it just disconnects your acct/ownership from that comment and assigns a generic “guest” name to them as the author. You can no longer edit them or track them in your dashboard either.

          •' KeithSelmes says:

            Miney, as you can see, I have a Disqus account – but frequently I can’t log in so I wind up just voting as guest. It’s not important enough to spend time fixing it, but it is frustrating.
            Very surprised it works this morning. Couldn’t do anyhting with it last night.

          •' Minethere says:

            heya Keith-)) I said someplace or other, I think in a reply to Leslie, that disqus is wonky sometimes…so yes, I know.

            Happy Holidays!!

          •' Arielle says:

            Disqus just sucks imo. Dread trying to find posts here though never had a prob logging in.

          •' Rosie Redwing says:

            Was one post to support my grid ? {Insert Smiles}
            now after polling your are calling me a troll but your post with no facts and sheer arrogance shows you are the troll !

          •' Roger says:

            Millions of Beth’s in the world is this now grasping straws?

          •' Adam01time says:

            I met her personally and tell you the truth she does not impress me and the fact is I seen her work on here website and not impressed I am glad she has no part in maintaining this website.

            I am so glad she has Tranq to handle the simulator,

          •' wolftimber says:

            No surprise there really! Being an admin or boss is never easy, always problems, everyone on your back, but absolutely nothing excuses treating a paying customer like garbage, insulting, berating, “talking down to” or “dissing” them. I don’t care if it’s been a rough week, the cat died, their favorite tree fell over in a storm or they have shingles- if it’s bad enough to treat paying customers like krap then STAY HOME and have somone else better equipped to deal with customers do that.
            You know what they say about running a business, the dissatisfied, angry customer who feels they got a raw deal or were treated poorly tells something like 50 friends co-workers and associates all about it, the very happy customers tell 2-3 friends.
            It’s not the customers you don’t hear from – satisfied customers don’t usually write glowing testimonials and tell 50 friends- they EXPECT good service etc., it’s very often the ones you DO hear from that are the concern.

          •' Minethere says:

            Well, this is likely because she is not really a business person and has only previously worked for others, a major difference than running your own business.

            I know what you say tho in how poorly treated customers, at least some of them, will tell “50 friends”…this is a business maxim, actually.

            The difference from real businesses to virtual ones, however, is that a few ppl can seem like several using alts and anons and such…so the “happy customers” can seem to be more than is otherwise the reality.

            As well, most just go away, or fade away, due to just having wanted to escape reality, and being shown they can’t do that here either. As well, those who won’t stand up to poor customer service due to all the drama others heap on them just for saying the truth…and many just wish to remain anonymous.

            Anywho, in her own words. Note the lack of education and the large gap in work between other work and forming inwz.

            [disclaimer…lol…of course I do know people do other things than work in life, and ppl do not need to be especially educated to run a business….it has it’s own probative value for those interested, is all]


          •' wolftimber says:

            Interesting background, “customer service…” for a hair over 2 years, then a change to another company, a hair over 2 years there too, cold calling pharmacy sales?? Easy to see, that all matches the qualifications for… I guess selling mops, cleaning supplies and brooms to pharmacies I guess.

            Then after a big gap- hopping into self employment, looks like great resume material… for a janitorial job maybe.
            Job hopping never looks good, gee and I’ve been with the same company for 16 years…

          •' Minethere says:

            I ran my own business for 23 years, and within that I did other businesses.

            The point was, that people should really invest some time in whom they give money to, and their time and efforts, whatever grid. Check the whois on the grid, find the owners name, etc.

            Unless a free opensim of course, the non-profits. But even still, if enough effort is going to be given to one, check it out.

          •' Adam01time says:

            founders have a closed grid and pay this website to advertise. or has in the past. IW has some wonderful things but the survey should be hypergrid survey. and not push the opensim open GPL and the thought of freedom where the free code doesn’t live. Here is the open sim.
            when the closed sims that have closed grid code you have no clue what that simulator can do or what bug is there.

            KISS is a great thing in the opensource community we are able to see the problems and work on it you cant own it the code is free.

            The survey is well about grids. If it looks like a closed grid like SL and it walks like a closed grid. And you can’t correct the broken code then it is in the wrong survey by using the word OPENSIM.

          •' Gaga says:


            Yes, Adam but the protocols are the same. Inworldz renders like Second Life and Opensim renders like Second Life and even Aurora, another forked Opensim branch, renders like Second Life too. They can all share the same content made on any of the versions and there are still more similarities than differences so we are talking about a set of virtual world platforms that share a common heritage and protocols despite the difference that have developed over time due to forking the code base.

            I do agree, however, that the name of this blog, Hypergrid Business is a misnomer really since the editor focuses on closed commercial grids and a lot less on Hypergrid enabled grids and, in my view, virtually ignores altogether the very many small standalone worlds that make up a large part of the free Metaverse. This leads to some bias although I wouldn’t go so far to say it is deliberate, rather it is more like not looking beyond the large grids and particularly the commercial grids for a story. however, I would not exclude any grid, commercial or otherwise, from the survey because in the end I really think they will all end up in some sort of connected Metaverse even if Opensim dies out. Personally, I think it will continue to evolve just as much as Second Life will. In fact, I am confident that once Kitely opens to Hypergrid then we will be entering a new phase altogether. Perhaps then Hypergrid Business will make more sense as a name for this blog.

          •' Adam01time says:

            slow down it simple just make the survey virtual worldz business. Have people register for the survey . And let this website take a fee and it will all be cool. This website needs to make money. This website also uses opensource server.

            It not weather one is better than the other. Don’t step on the people feet that have volunteer thousands of hours developing opensim. Just to put a none opensimulator in the category. It is a huge put down to the people that have worked on there code and have closed it up. And a worse put down on the people that volunteer there time to maintain opensim. The fact is opensimulator is a free code if you don.t understand free as in the GPL then please take time and look it up.
            I still own land in IW I still do a lot of business there.
            so if you don’t think you calling Tranq code a everyday opensimulator is not a put down. After he ported all of it to C# you have no conception of inworldz hard work.

          •' Gaga says:

            Okay, you’ve lost me. I will leave you to your illusions.

          •' Rosie Redwing says:

            Inworldz sould be seen in its own light {insert smiles}
            not tied to the same people from the same grids who abuse it
            this is the one time i find agreement in your comments adam.

          •' guest says:

            And whats the use of deformer if its only in terrible old special inworldz viewers ? Complete nothing. Im shocked inworldz still use imprudence as main viewer. thats so old bad and incompleet. Deformer not reason to say inworldz is better.

          •' Adam Time says:

            I read about the deformer and how everyone put LL down for not keeping with it. Well they never stopped they renamed it under another project. And it was heavily developed.
            LL paid the man for his work and they took over the project kept there mouth shut.

            Drakeo ported that code a long time ago.
            That project has matured now and has become and renamed Mesh fit. you can actually test the beta viewer of it.

            we all pretty much laughed at all the hoopla going on about the deformer.

            If I pay for something and I want to keep my moth shut about my project that is my right. Same with LL.

            As far as the old viewer oh well it is up to the simulator if the want to keep using it. The 1.5.2 IW viewer is a very fine viewer. as for the v3 they use and call v2 it is a different dog now it has some big changes in the xml and the code. Why because of the compilers the developers are familiar with.

        •' Avination Refugee says:

          Hey your right I just moved from avination to inworldz last week it was hard living in that grid alone,
          I looked for people on the map but all I found was bots just like you said dwagon and the lag was killing me,
          The founders in inworldz took me under their wing ,not I have a family it’s like the magic is back in my life..Yayyyy

        •' wolftimber says:

          It’s not my feelings you are “hurting” I simply related my experiences with the grid and others as a multiple sim owner and builder for several years now, I personally don’t care what grid people go to it’s their money and if they make the wrong choice on a walled garden grid they will not be able to save their entire region(s) as an OAR, or save an IAR and reconstruct it elsewhere.

          The work and loss will be theirs not mine, I learned my lesson long ago about SL and making use of building with those freebie full perm megaprims and purchased items you can’t export, I learned the same lessons in inworldzzz too- if the owners and staff don’t like you for any reason at all, you get treated like krap and prone to being “dissed”, I still have the logs…

          Not to mention the little forum “clique” essentially running the forum, and running new people especially off the official forums while the founders stood by and did nothing, but oh well!
          All I can say is anyone who decides to go to that grid would be wise to stay off their forums and away from the “clique” that exists, go about your business and don’t get involved with those running the thing.

    •' AviWorlds says:

      AviWorlds 45000 prims region that can be split into up to 16 regions only costs $45.00 dollars per month. And we have a truly active community.

      •' Roger says:

        Do you have true physics or offer any advantages other grids cannot? using vanilla freeware plus the same hosting service as everyone else your not bringing much new to the game,
        ….Surely I would be more interested if you had your own servers in data centers with your own development team but all I see you doing is what anyone else can do is rent server space from a 3rd party
        that uses freeware.

        •' Ilan Tochner says:

          Hi Roger,

          AviWorlds aside, there are companies, such as Kitely, that have development teams and add features and bug fixes to OpenSim – some of those companies use very different architectures than the standard OpenSim one. Therefor stating that AviWorlds is offering “the same hosting service as everyone else” makes a roundabout claim that all OpenSim service providers are the same – which is definitely not the case.

          •' AviWorlds says:

            AviWorlds does not offer the samething other grids offer. Most grids offer open sim out of the box. AviWorlds together with Zetamex and other vehicle script developers have place different configurations in our INI. for our vehicle physics.
            AviWorlds on top of all that offers free regions that you can place in your pc. Connect yourself regions. Plus our very low prices for the hosted regions.

            AviWorlds also has now established small parcel markets where anyone can RENT parcels just like in SL. Most open sim grids do not attend to that very much.
            But being that most of SL users do rent parcels and do not buy full regions we thought it would be a good idea to offer that market.
            AviWorlds community is growing and that is also a plus. We have people who LIVE in aviworlds and prefer aviworlds instead of SL or any other grids.

            AviWorlds did shut down twice. But like I have written before. I love this game. I am here to keep trying and trying. I think that if you fail on something that is your dream you should get up and try again. It is ok to fail what it isnt is to GIVE UP.

          •' Gaga says:

            There is a saying, “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.” And another saying, “It is better to have tried and failed than to never try at all.” This has got to be Alex!

        •' AviWorlds says:

          AviWorlds has its own servers. Yes Zetamex is our developer and we pay them for that. But we are not sharing anything with zetamex’s current other users. AviWorlds is independent and yes we have developments that others do not have. Like special configurations for our vehicle scripts etc etc.

  10.' Hannah says:

    There’s no place like!

  11.' Guest says:

    Metropolis rocks, and the tech support when needed has been top notch, Zak Spot accurately troubleshot one obscure odd issue I had with mono and his suggestion solved the problem instantly.

  12.' Minethere says:

    ok, ok, if I wanted commercial notices I would join a commercial grid and join their spam groups and get tons of them-))))

    j/k aside, yes, Zak is a cool admin-))

  13.' shawnkmaloney . says:

    I coulda swore I commented!! oh well, since noone else has from Craft grid yet, I guess it’s up to me to represent, Ciao baby, ciao ciao ciao. that’s as Italian as I get. Speaking of Ciao, please keep in mind that alot of non english speakers on their home grids just dont feel comforatable commenting around the likes of us and so, if not knowing the technology of translation yet, would like to be recognised but feel embarrassed. And Maria. How’s that newspaper stand thing goin? 🙂 And this is Kismet with me being on top of Lani after hanging with her for a while this evening at her sci-fi RP wonderland of glory.

    •' Minethere says:

      oh yesss Craft rocks!!! Tao and Licu are top notch admins.

      More advertising spam coming, close your eyes.

      Ilan and Oren of Kitely are cool. Lazuli of 3rd Rock is cool. Cheryl of Haven is very sweet…and everyone who runs their own HG enabled grids and regions is the bestest in all the Metaversum!!!!

    • Shawn – Good point. I notice that the French and German grids are under-represented in the survey, as well. That’s too bad. I get so many emails from non-English speakers that I forget that most people are not comfortable reading publications in a different language.

      I have Google Translate up, automatically translating every non-English website for me, but I wouldn’t trust it for, say, taking a survey. It’s nice for an overview of what’s being said on the page, but not always accurate for every single specific phrase.

    •' wolftimber says:

      Craft is good stuff too, I have visited on occasion.

    •' Carly Michelle says:

      Sorry Craft

  14.' Michelle Argus says:

    @Maria, is a vendor survey also in planing again? This year it did not take place eventhough it was announced. If so, would be great if it would not take place during xmas/new year like last time, to many people are gone to visit family during that time

  15.' Vanish says:

    You know, not wanting to complain about the survey as it’s interesting as hell, but there’s one issue I’ve got with it, and I don’t even know if it’s relevant, because I don’t know what the data is you’re looking for. I’m going to mention it anyway:

    The problem I have is picking a grid as my “home”, and only to be able to rate that one grid. I notoriously am running my own standalone, and have done so for as long as I’m in OpenSim, and visit everything I visit only through hypergrid. However, I don’t want to *rate* my standalone. It’s vanilla OpenSim, there’s nothing going on there (because it’s just me) and there’s really not much to say about it at all, except that it’s my home, and my castle.

    However, I have visited a great number of grids, and met people from all over, been involved in a few communities and certainly have opinions on most of the major grids out there. Just, because I have to pick my home grid and can only rate that, this survey can’t represent all those opinions.

    Now, as I said, I don’t know if that’s intended, as I can see that you may not want people from one grid bashing other grids in your survey, or, maybe, if you *do*. I just know that the way this survey is set up, I could just vote for my standalone.

    I finally picked one grid I currently visit most and rated that, even though it’s not my home.

    • If you split your time evenly between two grids, you can vote twice — once for each grid — and make that clear in the comments, so the multiple vote doesn’t get deleted.

      My reasoning in settings things up the way I did is that people are most knowledgeable about the grid they spend the most time on. And, second, that taking a survey is a pain and I wanted to have the fewest possible questions provide the maximum amount of information.

      But there’s only 20 minutes left before the survey closes, so act fast!

      •' Vanish says:

        Thanks. It was more of a general consideration that something I had to have solved for myself. As is the way with surveys, you only get answers to the questions you’re asking. With this survey, you’ll probably mostly get votes from people who picked one grid and choose that as their “home”, which, quite naturally, will be positively biased towards it (otherwise, why pick it as your home).

        I don’t know how representative that is about how the whole of OpenSim users sees certain grids, but maybe that’s not the question you’d like answered. In any case, it’s something to keep in mind when reading the results.

  16. Justin Ireman says:

    damnit, I missed the survey, oh well

  17.' TheQuestion says:

    What Saturday were you going to post it?

    • This Saturday. But I’m still making all the charts. And I just realized that I accidentally double-counted two columns when calculating what percent of grids people had visited, and will have to start over.

      (Good thing that I’ve made copies of all the data at each point of the analysis, so only have to re-do some of the work….)

      My brain is swimming…

  18.' TheQuestion says:

    What Sunday were you going to post the results?

  19.' AviWorlds says:

    Thanks for the results! Go AviWorlds!

  20.' Guest says:

    can we say rigged, aviworlds has no content and barely any people, looks someone made a load of accounts for this voting thing. Hypergate jump there and see for yourself looks abandoned. the owner only fools himself on this one

    •' AviWorlds says:

      Well people voted for AviWorlds. I am proud of this since we had pretty much to start from zero. I think that your accusation is very unfair and illegal since it is not true what you are saying. I am very happy with the results. Nothing like a come back like this! Thanks everyone who voted and are there being part of a dream!
      Like I always said; no matter how many times you fail! Dont let anyone tell you it is not possible or that you cant do it!

  21.' Hannah says:

    Dreamnation sent in 30 letters (according to Maria in this comment section) -they get one line. Metropolis scores over 3 times osgrid and they only get 3 meager paragraphs. OSGrid comes in dead last in all but two categories (only top in one -most visited) –you publish seven long screeds about them

    This kind of ameteur-hour favoritism is why we can’t have nice things.

    •' Hannah says:

      Actually, re-reading Maria’s comment it’s not clear if DreamNation had thirty written replies -or simply thirty votes.

      It doesn’t matter either way -I don’t think that the numbers justify the disproportionate boosting that osgrid got on in this article.

      •' eekee says:

        OSGrid is not just another grid, as far as I can see. It was the first big OpenSim grid by far, It was *the* OpenSim you heard about if you were in SL in 2008. It remains one of the biggest grids in sim count. It is (or was) a testing ground for OpenSim development. Its history is closely associated with OpenSim, to the point where I’d say it was something of a cradle. To see it declining is newsworthy in itself.

        •' Hannah says:

          That’s fair enough -so make THAT (the decline) the story, instead of what we got.

          •' eekee says:

            Huh… “decline” was the story I got from this report, lol. Hm.. there was more written about OSGrid though. Well, OSGrid came up as the most visited, so it will be of interest to a lot of people.

            Anyway, if it’s any comfort, (I know these things can rankle,) the 3 paragraphs about Metropolis interested me a great deal, so much so that I seriously intend to visit it even though I don’t get around grids much at all. Littlefield is another I intend to visit even though it got even fewer words than Metropolis.

          •' Minethere says:

            The article only barely touches on all the things Metro offers. For example, the one osgrid commenter who mentioned they noticed some regions gone, and to “other grids”, and that being they moved to Metropolis, a wonderful grid.

            Often, it is what is not said, but only intimated, that is where the real stories are. As that commenter also said, reading in other places gave them a more accurate picture of things. Something I highly recommend.

      • DreamNation had some other responses, too. One person complained about crashing while teleporting from one region to another. Since this is an issue common to many grids (and to Second Life as well, sometimes), it didn’t seem worth including.

        A couple of other comments were very brief: “Majorly nice people.” “Very nice place.” “My favorite grid to hang out.” I understand that people can feel bad when their grid doesn’t get as much attention as other grids.

        But there are 300-some active grids out there. I focused the article on the ones with most regions and most users — InWorldz, OSgrid, Kitely, Avination.

        DreamNation came out in the middle of the rankings, and the comments people left were completely generic — “very nice people” can apply to any grid anywhere. It’s like calling every child “a special child.” Yeah, yeah, they’re special. Everybody is special. And when other people’s kids are recognized, and yours are not, you feel bad because your kid is so special.

        I would actually like to know what makes DreamNation special. I ask this of all grid owners I talk to — what, actually, sets your grid apart from others? What is your unique selling proposition?

        And everybody answers the same way: “Our community! We have the best people!”

        These days, that is NOT enough. Unless you expect users to travel from grid to grid to grid, creating and outfitting new avatars each time, meeting new people, and finding out if there’s an in-world group they click with — for EVERY single grid — you need to actually identify specific unique features, and promote those.

        That way, potential users can zero in and stop by your grid first if that particular thing interests them.

        Otherwise, users are more likely to start out with a grid that their friends are at, that has the largest population, or that does particularly well in some scoring system or other (such as this survey). Or that has the most active marketing team.

        Although.. okay, complaining publicly about not getting enough coverage *does* count as marketing … and here I am, giving more attention to DreamNation at the expense of, say, Zandramas or Virtual Highway or 3rd Rock Grid or Metropolis.

        Okay, you got me.

        •' Minethere says:

          lol…I always love your sense of humor, Maria-)) For better, or for worse, it is the main reason I keep reading here too.

        •' Hannah says:

          I don’t know dreamnation -I picked them because you specifically mentioned the number of submissions that they made, and it was a glaring contrast between how much they submitted and was said about them.

          My point is -Inworldz and Kitely have the numbers to justify the coverage and I don’t have a beef with that -osgrid didn’t, imo; and osgrid’s undeserved prominence in the article appears to me to be due to primarily to bias.

          • OSgrid has the second largest active user group after InWorldz — almost five times as many as Kitely and is the most visited grid, according to this survey. It’s also the biggest grid by land area, and one of the oldest (if not THE oldest) grids around. But the reason I mentioned it several times in this story is because it had the LOWEST scores for community, support and technology.

            I’m very interested in grids that do extremely well, and grids that do extremely poorly, since there are lessons to be learned from both extremes.

  22.' Adam01time says:

    what do the OS stand For in OS grid. I been playing with that code on my desk top for some time. and wonders why we have closed simulators on a open sim annual survey. If so why don’t we have Secondlife in the survey I have seen that code and it is based on some of open sim .

    Not to put it down. Just saying.

    OS is for ? what type of grids.

  23.' Minethere says:

    Thank you Maria for a monumental effort-))

    Here is that you did not link to.

    “Smaller grids typically have an advantage when it comes to support because, with fewer residents, there are fewer issues to resolve.”

    I have to take issue with this comment. As a grid gets larger, it should, if a proper business, add layers of additional support to help it’s customers. Of course, several grids are not really proper businesses, which is fine too, but support should increase proportional to size, if not, the grid needs to re-evaluate …. assuming they have the acumen, of course.

    But then, you said this,

    “In addition, commercial grids have an advantage in that they have paid support staff whose job it is to deal with problems and complaints. Non-profit grids such as OSgrid are run by volunteers, and support is typically obtained from other users, via forums, discussion lists, and in-world meetings.”

    which does not clearly address support issues [and I don’t expect you to address everything, of course..commenters can do such things]. For example, Kitely is big on automating services as much as possible, thereby allowing the grid owners to focus on other issues. Metropolis has 3 primary admins, who by being very knowledgeable, minimize support issues, but who also work for free. Both of these examples also have knowledgeable support volunteers and residents.

    Also, there is the knowledge factor. Many folx only know sl type closed grid commercialism aspects, and only know having other people run things for them. It is those who truly understand freedom who branch out to free opensim. And it is those who actually know the value of OARs and current trending in pricing based on innovation and improving tech who use Kitely for the commercial aspects they give.

    I did not know Zandramas is a “closed” closed grid, interesting. I do not understand this concept as it seems to me, if you are a closed commercial grid to begin with, why limit yourself even further. Odd.

  24. Danko Whitfield says:

    Thank you, Maria for all the work involved in doing an “event” like this – and it really is an event, you know? I would like to share here a comment I posted on the Kitely forums which quotes your article. It’s a matter that I think deserves serious attention. I am, right now, working on a lengthy blog piece about this issue..
    Thanks again, – Danko

    “Congratulations to Ilan, Oren and Kitely for the great showing in the HGBiz survey.

    I listed Kitely as my “home” grid in the survey and gave high marks for everything.

    One comment in Maria’s report that I think needs to receive some attention… Regarding Kitely, she says…
    “It ranked….. surprisingly, third in community. Kitely is not known as a community-oriented grid.”

    I think that is a common perception (or misconception) that is unfair to Kitely.

    Part of the problem is the definition – what makes a grid “community-oriented” ??

    I think Kitely has a very good and active community. The evidence can be found right here on the forums. But there is more evidence: how many grids have a welcome area that was designed, created, established by users who volunteered their time and talent? And then there’s the transfer stations – Kitely created something that did the job but “the community” spoke up, Kitely listened and a better way was found with major community help and effort. The community input Kitely asked for and received on the creation of the Marketplace is another example. And the current discussion about “Towns” is another sign that when “the community” sees a problem or a place for improvement, attention is paid.

    There are other examples of community input as well but consider the importance of the ones I named above – welcome center, transfer stations, marketplace – these are basic building blocks of a good and innovative grid – things the owners of most grids would do their own way and not even consider opening the floor to ideas from mere users.

    I think Kitely has a strong community feel and that is a credit to its owners and its users. Kitely doesn’t get credit for this.

    Obviously, this survey shows us that Kitely users think there is a strong community here. Other grids take note.”

    •' KeithSelmes says:

      That’s roughly my experience. I don’t have a wild time socialising in world, that may be why “Kitely is not known as a community-oriented grid”, but there is always something positive happening in the forums, mentors group or market, with a lot of user involvement, as well as progress with the welcome centre and similar initiatives, which are largely community projects. This is why I feel there’s a strong sense of community there.
      And thus far, it’s a very good natured, and helpful and hassle free community. Probably worth also saying, I count the management as part of the community, that’s a big bonus, and goes a long way toward the impression of getting first rate support.

    •' Terry Baxter says:

      Thanks for your personal insight on kitelys achievements, But the real question is who did the voting? I asked this earlier with no responses, I do follow sometimes Marias stats she posts and seems to me Inworldz always
      takes the number 1 spot, with Kitely a few grids behind trailing. Now if we was to compare those stats last month to this survey something is extremely wrong in how it was done. And both Inworldz and Kitely are walled grids. Just strikes me as strange is all.
      In my opinion this particular survey means really nothing after visiting some of the top named grids today, A few met no category achievements they did well in.

      •' Ilan Tochner says:

        Hi Terry,

        Please take a look at the amount and type of community activity in the Kitely forums:

        And in the Kitely Google+ group:

        And comments in our blog:

        You can see some people who mentioned having participated in the Survey. The reason we had a lot higher percentage of our active users participating in the survey than most grids is because the active users we have are very involved in our grid’s community and are willing to spend time to help us when asked to do so. Why other grids had a lower percentage of their active users participate in the survey is a question best directed at the owners and communities of those other grids.

        •' Terry Baxter says:

          Hi IIan, By no means did I intend to criticize Kitley’s achievements and that it contributed to the opensim community a few times. I just stated that this particular survey shows no real merit. By the monthly stats Maria posts Inworldz is the overall preference for Opensim community is what I meant. I think what really happened is many don’t hold this particular blog (No Offence Maria) as being a faithful source of opensim activity’s. So there wasn’t that many voters, But many of the same people where voting numerous times for a favorite grid. Take Aviworlds for a perfect example, with all the categories it did well in. Just is mind boggling that this was even done in the first place. Being the monthly stats on our present grids is proof itself what and where the real community is.

          •' Ilan Tochner says:

            I can’t respond for other grids but I can say, as Danko’s blog post attested, that there is a lot more community activity in Kitely than the monthly active user numbers indicate. Not everyone who is active in the community or supports Kitely goes inworld each month so the monthly report doesn’t show these people.

            Many people who don’t go inworld on a regular basis still remain active by communicating with other people via our forums and various Kitely-related social media channels.

            As for the amount of contribution we’ve made to the OpenSim community. I think it’s fair to say that we contributed code more than “a few times” and that some of those contributions were for features and bug fixes that required quite a bit of code:

            Please note that this doesn’t include the many bug fixes we’ll be contributing in the next few days. See:

          •' Brazil says:

            Would not matter who won some will never be happy
            and with aviworldz who knows alex has a huge following among latinos who may have been offline last few days due to grid upgrades but they have voted its that simple with alexs secondlife group having 40k latino members with many visiting aviworlds as residents why is this a shocker or is it because its a latin grid who English is not the first language so you all assume we are just a bunch of poverty stricken banana pickers from south America right
            me and alex we are suppost to be working in your gardens for a penny an hour right not online like we are in the 21st century
            give us a freaking break gringos

          •' Minethere says:

            I really wish I could find someone to work on my land for a penny an hour…THAT I can afford, but barely, and only for a few hours.

            Perhaps I live in the wrong part of the country tho…darnit to heck!!

          •' Arielle says:

            Did you do a survey Terry, to come to the conclusion that many do not hold HGB as being a faithful source of Opensim activities? Can you post the results of that?

            Many people feel their opinions are the only correct ones and if the majority disagree that the deck must be stacked against them by persons unknown and of course they have to come here and post in the comments about how bad a job Maria must be doing because the stats show something contrary to their opinion.

            Personally I think Maria is doing an amazing job especially in light of the limited resources she has available to her. You are probably welcome to help out Terry, by contributing your time and effort to get more favourable stats in the next survey.

          • Terry — Not sure what you mean. We had a record high number of voters this year. And I saw no evidence of ballot stuffing. AviWorlds — though it does have an enthusiastic contingent — just barely had enough votes to cross the threshold to be included in the survey. There was no pattern of blocks of votes with all “excellent” or all “poor” for any particular grid. There were some cases where single individuals voted more that once. In some cases, it was because they split their time between two grids, and said so in the comments. The rest of the time, the duplicate votes seemed accidental, and I just deleted the duplicates, as well as a couple of cases of fake submissions.

            Those grids who had a large number of votes also had a wide variety in those votes, and a large number of comments, both pro and con, about their grids.

            Finally, anyone who’d like to see the raw results — either to do their own analysis, or for marketing purposes (say, to quote from the comments or results) — can just email me at [email protected] and I’ll send over an Excel file (minus the personally identifiable information used to authenticate the votes).

            But I’m always happy to improve. If anyone had any suggestions for how to improve the survey, or the upcoming hosting companies survey (which I’ll be doing next week or so), please get in touch! And, of course, if you want to help.

            Finally, the purpose of this survey isn’t to deliberately pit one grid against another. It is to draw attention to the fact that there are multiple great grids, with passionate users, and that the grids are trying to get better.

            The reason the media focus on horseraces is because they DRAW ATTENTION. And they force people to ask themselves, “which side am I on?” This is the critical issue — instead of asking themselves “Do I care about OpenSim?” people ask themselves “Which grid do I support?” It’s the way games between football teams draw attention to the game. Would any non-players follow football if there were no games, if the players of each team just played for fun, by themselves? People complain about the horse race coverage of elections, but pure issue-driven coverage, without the “who’s ahead this week and by how many points”-type stories, would result in no audience at all, a much less educated public, and no turnout at all.

            I believe, right now, that the OpenSim hypergrid is the closest thing we have and the best bet for a metaverse, and the more people know about it, and use it, the better.

            And survey stories bring attention. Even people who don’t follow OpenSim might be curious about which grid won — just in case they might want to visit someday — and they might notice the the 90-percent-would-approve rating, and read the comments, and then maybe try it out. Anyway, that’s the goal here.

      • Danko Whitfield says:

        Hi Terry, you’re talking about two completely different things. this survey asks users their opinion of their primary grid; the monthly stats count the number of users. the results have no direct relation. if the Grid Survey was won by the same grid that led in the monthly stats, it would be a matter of coincidence…and a great stroke of luck for the grid that won both!

        Further down you say the survey didn’t get many votes. 654 sounds like a lot of votes to me. in fact, since you like those monthly grid stats – if Maria’s Annual Survey was a grid that had 654 active users, it would have been the 7th most active grid in November. Top Ten! Pretty good, Maria!

      •' Minethere says:

        I am just going to use you as a convenient conduit-))

        Firstly, this survey/poll as well as Maria’s monthly stats all have probative value, in simply looking at the overall numbers…that being, the trending.

        Then there is the erroneous comment you make about Kitely being a walled grid [more rightly called a “closed commercial grid”] which, tho currently true, is not their roadmap.

        Ilan has stated, and he is usually pretty close to the mark, that next on the timeline is to enable HG delivery of marketplace items for those creators who have checked the export box.

        Then they state HG for avatars will be enabled by year end, or close.

        Being realistic, I personally expect them to enable HG for avies sometime in late January or so…things happen with software, as most of us know.

        As to voters in this particular survey…it is those who find it worth their time and efforts to do, in the first place, and over all that, those who even noticed. Obviously, they are a very small percentage of actual opensim users. As Timber pointed out below.

        But this is to be expected. It is natural even in reality stuff…

        As well, it is all in the eyes of the beholder, and based upon their perceptions of reality, and with a small dose of those ppl who find it amusing, for some odd reason, to game things, using anons, alts, guest accounts and whatever to sow confusion among the whole worthwhile cause.

        But that is cool, it is the nature of the net.

        In any case, those closed commercial grids who do not open to HG will always be simple niche grids that some will like until the last pimple region is there, and the rest of the Meta will move along with cool and innovative tech-))

        The niche grids should simply accept their status and enjoy it.

  25.' Terry Baxter says:

    Thanks Maria for the Grid Survey. I jumped right in to visit the top grids listed hypergating as usual :). Aviworlds was on top of my list after reading about all the controversy. What I saw was extremely disappointing, There was really no content in there named location called MarketPlace. There where 3 people online I never saw them, A few regions where inaccessible. My experience there was poor at best, The grid lagged somewhat and very basic. I suppose my question if any on this survey is who are the people voting? Honestly looks like the residents there voted 20 times each.
    There are many great grids out there I have visited, And for them not to come close to top ranking and confusing at best. Makes a traveler as myself concerned to how valid surveys and ranks are submitted

  26.' Vanish says:

    Well, am I the only one who thinks the overall results of this survey are very, very good? To me, it reads “diversification” more than anything. OpenSim’s fate doesn’t depend on the rise or fall of any particular grid anymore, not even OSGrid’s. There’s plenty of choices of well-populated and beautiful grids, there’s great new different approaches to the same technology (Kitely) and a thriving ecosystem all over.

    Personally, that makes me very happy indeed.

    Also, following the ups and downs of grids for many years now, there’s one pattern that emerges: People aren’t stupid, and the poorly managed grids with the sketchy businesses and trollish behavious, the ones that spam the blogs and forums with how great their grid is and that we all need to come and join – those don’t last. They might work for a while, even for a few years, but the ones that succeed are the ones that take their users seriously and aren’t in for a quick buck.

    Which is something that makes me even happier.

    We’re a fucking great crowd, everyone!

  27.' Leslie Kling says:

    TanGLe Grid is running the latest version of Opensim software. Just a note. Everyone is welcome at anytime to come for a visit. BTW like the idea of this survey. Keeps people updated and well informed. Would like to see more talk about smaller grids. Just a thought.

  28.' Arielle says:

    People tend to value more what they pay for, then that which is free. Grids admins that invite and appreciate the volunteer efforts of their members, will have that appreciation returned to them in kind. When a grid allows its members to contribute their time and efforts into the success of the grid, a feeling of community comes as a result.
    From those perspectives I feel the surveys are pretty accurate from what I know of the different grids both from personal observation as well as comments I hear through various forums, groups and blogs.

  29.' Brazil says:

    Would not matter who won some will never be happy
    and with aviworldz who knows alex has a huge following among latinos who may have been offline last few days due to grid upgrades but they have voted its that simple with alexs secondlife group having 40k latino members with many visiting aviworlds as residents why is this a shocker or is it because its a latin grid who English is not the first language so you all assume we are just a bunch of poverty stricken banana pickers from south America right
    me and alex we are suppost to be working in your gardens for a penny an hour right
    not online like we are in the 21st century
    give us a freaking break gringos

    •' Joe Builder says:

      Gringo lol, are you Mexican? That’s a Mexican term for the people there that can’t say Americans. Todays history lesson free of charge for the poster known as Brazil :). Don’t forget to tip your waitress, I’m here all week lol

  30.' Leslie Kling says:

    I guess my 2 cents don’t matter. I guess it is who you know to have an opinion. Posted here yesterday and now it is gone. Smiles.

    •' Hannah says:

      >I guess it is who you know


    •' Minethere says:

      what? if someone flagged your comment then Maria has to personally review it…as they are often flagged by ppl trying to cause issues, she often puts them back up. This depends on when she notices. I am not sure she sleeps, but it is possible.

      I saw your comment yesterday and it seemed fine. I would not worry about it…disqus also sometimes get wonky and has a mind of it’s own…lol

      then there is the net, which is wonky all the time….

      Personally, I never care if a comment I made disappears, and I never usually even notice….nothing I say is important anyways, even to me-)))

      hugss Leslie!!!

      •' Minethere says:

        ok, it must have been another comment you made, as I see the one you made that I saw, lower down here….they move around due to the up or down votes that some ppl with “issues” use incorrectly.

    • Leslie — I don’t see any comments from you in the moderation queue or the spam queue. Sorry!

  31.' Joe Builder says:

    I love this place its always a Drama Fest when it comes to who has the best grid. LOL

  32. Maria,

    Really great to see this interesting data. Thanks so much for sharing. I’m equally fascinated to see the raw data – any chance you are able / willing to share that too?

    Again, thanks for sharing and for what must be a monumental task – breaking it down into such a clear, succinct overview of the state of the industry.


  33.' AviWorlds says:

    Although I am happy with the results from the survey I must say that I see that Maria always has to say something in order to discredit AviWorlds results from the survey. If you read carefully she is always giving a bit of doubt why AviWorlds was on top in many categories.
    Maria I say this to you my friend. Marketing is a wonderful thing and penalizing AviWorlds like you are doing just because the others did not do a better marketing campaign is wrong!
    AviWorlds deserves the credit to be taken serious dont you agree? Or not? Besides most grids on your survey list are 2 years old or OLDER…hmmm. AviWorlds re opened 5 months ago after a TROUBLED start like you say all the time Maria. And we were competing against 2,4, even 6 years old grids in your survey list and you to say that it may have been some sort of a accident or error bla bla bla…

    This is very very disturbing to me and I am just going to work even harder now and will prove to you that we deserve to be taking serious! Maybe one day you will allow AviWorlds to be part of the family here without any discrimination or perhaps a better way of saying CONGRATS AVIWORLDS! After all that problem you competed agains alot older grids and managed to show up on the top!
    Thanks Maria
    Alex Ferraris

    •' Guest says:

      Can you Blame her? You been very unstable in the past you just open your grid and all of a sudden you do better than any other hard working grids have done. You bad talk every grid in opensims, Your open one day closed the next, Try the word Stable for a change then maybe people will take you serious and welcome you to a family as you call it.

      •' AviWorlds says:

        I am not going continue this conversation anymore. Not worth it. I will just show you what aviworlds is capable of with honesty and fair play.

        •' Joe Builder says:

          Don’t name me for what people think of you, Some nerve you have, And you really don’t want me to get started with you, I know to much about you and how you run your grid. I have photos and Notecard conversations of what you been doing over the years. You my friend better be real careful who you accuse or you will see what Joe Builder can really do. Best listen close revise your statement or the hammer will fall. Remember what SL did to you? Same may happen here. I have never been one to hide, good try tho. By the way many will back what I say they been screwed by you many a time.
          I left your grid and the key builders left as well, and Its all my fault I guess lol, wake the frig up

        •' Angel One says:

          Alex, se você esta atacando Joe porque pensa que ele me influenciou para tirar Roma de Aviworlds esta atacando errado. Sou adulta e ninguem exerce influencia sobre mim. exclui por razão de suas atitudes. Sempre cumpri tudo o que prometi em Aviworlds mas você não. Excluiu as ilhas que tinham importancia para mim porque ficou magoado por eu estar construindo junto com Joe, o que não fiz segredo e fui imparcial e honesta com os dois. Portanto sai e levei o que era importante para mim e deixei o que é importante para você.
          Sei que me chamou ladra por ter levado Roma, absurdo porque eu sou a construtora e proprietaria de todas os edificios….não posso ser ladra por levar o que é meu e por direito faço com o que é meu o que eu quiser.
          Dadas portando as devidas explicações espero que isso acabe por aqui.

          Alex, if you are attacking because Joe thinks he influenced me to take Rome Aviworlds attacking this wrong. I’m an adult and no one exerts influence over me. excluded by reason of their attitudes. Always obey everything I have promised in Aviworlds but you do not. Excluded the islands that had importance to me because I was hurt by being built along with Joe, what did secret and was fair and honest with them. So I took out and what was important to me and let what is important to you.
          I know you called me a thief for taking Rome, absurd because I am the builder and owner of all the buildings …. I can not be a thief take what is rightfully mine and do what is my what I want.
          Given porting their explanation hope it ends here.
          excuse my english , i am brazilian

  34.' Steve Avro says:

    Drama, Trolling, Name Calling, Childish & Immature behaviours as witnessed here in it’s FULL GLORY discredits ALL OF YOU and keeps real people doing real things away from OpenSimulator & your “grids”. Mother’s Advice was very sound when she said to her kids “if you haven’t anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”

  35. Someone submitted a comment — since deleted — spelling out how they’d rigged the vote. They provided several specifics, which seemed doubtful, but I wanted to double-check, anyway, against my original files. If they had submitted the votes they had claimed, most of them had been filtered out before I got the results from the survey. (So, if they were in fact telling the truth about attempting to game the poll, it had no effect.) Other fake email addresses were filtered out by me, personally, before I tallied the votes .(There were a few.) The remaining votes for Kitely were realistic — a large portion came from email addresses that I personally recognized as belonging to readers — were of a variety of different rankings, and came with personal notes. Could a couple of fake votes still slipped through? Possibly, but not enough to affect the results.

    •' Joe Builder says:

      Don’t be surprised, Faking votes happens on a daily basis in RL. With sophisticated ways to get around not to be noticed or detected.