InWorldz steps up forum moderation on $1,950 land loss

Due to the loss of a major landowner after incivility on the forums, the commercial InWorldz grid will be stepping up moderation, InWorldz co-founder and CTO David Daeschler announced yesterday.

David Daeschler

David Daeschler

“The equivalent of $1,950 per month of land revenue is about to disappear forever from the InWorldz grid, and beautiful builds never to return again anywhere else,” said Daeschler, who is also known as Tranquillity Dexler in-world.

“We have tried our best to be light handed on moderation, to allow a freedom of discussion on these forums, but they are quickly becoming a liability when attacks are left to sit with only a locked thread as recourse,” he said. “We can not allow these trends to continue and sit in inaction while resident after resident tells us that these forums are toxic, a bad impression for newcomers, and bad for business in general.”

As a result, the grid will immediately start removing posts, locking threads, and freezing forum accounts if they are used for personal attacks.

If these measures do not suffice to ensure civility, the grid may shut down the forums altogether, with the exception of the technical support section.

InWorldz is the most popular grid by active user numbers, and is also the first grid to reach 100,000 registered users.

maria@hypergridbusiness.com'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China.

  • Of course, this isn’t a problem for InWorldz alone. Here at Hypergrid Business, discussions occasionally spiral out of control into flamewars (less now — thank you, Lawrence!).

    Wired magazine recently ran an article about fighting online harrassment: http://www.wired.com/2014/05/fighting-online-harassment/

    Definitely recommended reading.

    • lmpierce

      Thanks Maria.

      And the article is an interesting read… I like the idea of thinking about online community standards in the way we think of face-to-face professional communities.

  • hack13

    Why is this such a big deal? If a company as big as inworldz has no Plan B for a large loss of money, like this. I find it kinda unprofessional to freak out about almost a 2k loss. Zetamex has had a rough two months ourself, but we don’t go and blame it on people, nor react rash. We have already started to recoup our losses anyways. We have financial investors and a community that supports it.

    The fact they are making such a big deal about this, I find unprofessional and not good business planning. Also to blame it on flame wars, and even if it is true, all businesses have flame wars. Heck, companies try and tarnish Zetamex all the time and we just sit back quietly and ignore it, by responding like this I find it to be giving it and showing bad business practices. I went to college for business and law, and this sort of thing we were taught in training to “JUST KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! When people start trying to start bad press, the truth will make itself apparent.”

    • Tranquillity (InWorldz)

      The point of showing numbers is so that inworldz residents can see the effect of their flaming and harassment of other residents. It has nothing to do with the company getting flamed or insulted which is par for the course. This is entirely about user vs user harassment with 7500 unique users participating in a diverse community.

      Building a strong community includes standards for tolerance which are now established.

      • hack13

        It has to play to your companies demeanor, coming forward with this information in this fashion just seems kind of whiny. Matters such as this should stay closed and to themselves, just really bad call in my opinion.

        • Tranquillity (InWorldz)

          We’re a bit different. We like people to have all the facts to better understand our side when changes are made. Thanks for the feedback though and best of luck with with your ventures.

          • hack13

            Zetamex is an open and transparent company ourselves, in fact we list every single provider and the exact specifications of all the hardware we use on our site. Secondly, we come forward with all security breaches and issues, as we did just last month with the huge security hole we had to patch, which we patched in 1 hour of being made known of it.

            I am not saying not to be transparent, I am just saying it might be better to hire a marketing director or perhaps someone over community matters. We did this to help us decided how to approach angles ourselves. I suggest this because the wording of this post and the one on your site just reads badly press wise.

          • AviWorlds

            Hello there. The best place for your residents or people is in your forums, anyway I have always been intrigued why InWorldz never has a major land number increase since so many people go through inworldz grid ( over 7000). Every month. That many people and no region sales? Kinda strange to me that almost no land sales arent being generated from all these people.

          • Joe Builder

            May have to disagree with you on this alex, Its seems like a fair balance of online people vs land size. What would worry me would be 6000 regions with a low active user amount. Being as of today Inworldz seems to be doing extremely well for a opensim grid. Not sure you and anyone can take that away from them

          • AviWorlds

            well InWorldz is a commercial grid and the main money maker for a commercial grid is land sale. I dont care how many people are there every 30 days if these people are not generating business for the grid. When you see the grid stuck at number 1300s…and 200 of these regions are owned by the grid something is wrong. InWorldz should worry about that. Its been maybe 3 years and that number has not increased significantly enough to say the grid is a successful grid like you are telling me. In my view it is not. Not making money not growing.

          • I checked out InWorldz a couple of years ago . . and went back in just today to have a look around. Things have improved, but as I see it – unless you are a builder and can design your own homes and landscaping there is still not a lot to offer those of us who want to buy and place. Was the same 2 years ago and is the same now. My partner and I are thinking of buying land and there is an orgasmically high # of prims for us to play with – but what are we going to put there?

            I don’t want to offend anyone I swear – but most of the homes offered are flat and uninteresting and very poorly done when compared to what we have in SL. I know creators are needed in every virtual world but there’s a fair number of us who want to buy – and with not much to offer in the home and garden area (my interest) what are we to do?

            Huge respect for anyone who builds – and as I said I don’t want to offend anyone – but come on! I don’t know from land sales, etc…..but perhaps this is part of the problem. You want to make your virtual world beautiful and interesting and a fun place to be. The lack of quality builds and landscaping makes that difficult.

            Perhaps that is one part of the problem. I am going to hang a bit but I am finding it difficult to engage here.

            Now. . . really let me have it! 😀

          • if u think the prims allocated to regions there are “orgasmically high” [which, btw, sounds kinda fun..lol

            then you would love Kitely’s 100k prim regions…prim allowances are an artifact of those grids who keep them low in order to maximize profits…

          • Oh LORDY . . . 1 new virtual world at a time HAHAHAHAAH. I like that you think prim allowances are an artifact – well put. The rental price/prims are fairly uniform unless you find a rental in the sky. We did that and the prim allowance is great – but we missed the water.

          • well, the more prims [and other assets] the more memory needed and the less regions per simulator instance…so, for example;

            kitely runs up the regions as needed which keeps them fresh [thus one reason regions crash is ppl not restarting them on a regular basis] and they can increase prims limits to 100k due to how they allocate resources to just those regions and simulators running in the grid when needed…

            One of the admins in OSGrid put down 1 million prims and I personally rezzed out 381k prims just as a test [but on a nicely built computer of a friends with resources allocated to the one region in the simulator instance.

            So, with SL, for example, you can stack more regions in their simulator instances than you can in any of the sl wannabe grids as it is common practice to have them set to 45k prims, and in Kitely their model is even more different, and in people running their own instances it is limited by their own computers resources in memory and processing speeds and such things.

            In perspective to inwz their scenic regions have more regions running in single simulators than the ones that allow u to run more prims, and that along with the other limitations they put on those allows them to charge less [but not as low as they should be].

            In the commercial iterations it is all about maximizing profits but that can be done in many ways…Kitely does this by the way they run up regions on demand and by automating many processes the others do not do, putting a lot of control in the hands of the users that others rather keep to themselves.

            In your own instances you run from your computer you have godmode powers [what sl wannabe grid owners have] and can do everything the software allows and that you can learn.

            There is one sample world in Kitely that can be checked out that has the full allowed prims in it @ http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Lawrence-Pierce/Serenity-Island-Prim-Capability-Test-2

          • Birch Wind

            my friend, and furnishings creator Leanna Caerndow and I have a blog : livinginworldz.com and we showcase many regions, including landscaping etc. I have two regions I rent out and every home, plant and tree was purchased from places like Roots n Shoots, Teal’s Garden Shop, Offbeat, Julia Hathor — i have a folder of dozens and dozens of lm’s for just what you’re looking for that i offer to new tenants. If you come inworld, message me Birch Wind and i’ll pass them along to you. Hopefully you can find what you need. As for building? erm… i can make a prim. haha.

          • I can make a prim too LOL
            Ok .. . thanks for the response. I saw your blog earlier and have now become a follower. Thanks for all the info and will friend/look you up when I’m have time to get back to InWorldz!

          • Birch Wind

            I already posted above but I’ll repeat part of it briefly here: IW has an amazing community, many activities and projects. Many people come to IW because they like the business of SL but not the prices, and arent necessarily just looking to work on a peice of land like in many open sim grids. The people are there because they enjoy what IW has to offer, and that is not limited to buying land.

          • One of the things I remember hearing about in SL was how everyone used to support and encourage everyone. It’s a dog-eat-dog world there now as far as the many go and if you are not a part of the “in” group – and get their support for any business venture, then your chances of making a go of it are slim. I find that very, very sad.

      • Joe Builder

        One other thought would be to start removing the bad eggs and there IP address. Many many years ago I had a very active forum and yes a lot of criers and jealous people came to invade. Got a good moderator and began to ban IP addresses on first offence worked out good for all who cared at the end.

      • AviWorlds

        Tranquility what is the point of having 7500 unique visitors when your grid is not selling much land? A commercial grid needs to sell land. Thats your money maker. You guys need to see why your land numbers havent increased significantly in over 3 years. I live in New York, Long Island and you guys are near me. One day I would like to visit and perhaps give you some advice if you like.

        • Birch Wind

          I have two residential sims that ive operated a few years now. I have long term tenants that are happy with cheap rent and feel no need to go buy their own land. IW is more than just about land. In a lot of open sim grids, its all about getting your region, and making whatever you want on it, as an artistic or creative expression – while IW has that also, it also has an amazingly thriving community – so many people are not just there to take land and make something, but to interact, attend shows, work on collaborative projects and more.
          With such cheap rental prices, people don’t feel the need to make a land purchase, even though the costs are a fraction of what it would cost in SL.
          So – I guess bottom line is, IW isnt just a grid where people develop land, they develop communities and other things too. At least that’s been my experience.

      • lmpierce

        Hi Tranquillity,

        It’s interesting you could put a monetary value on the lack of moderation – that helps to answer the question as to whether, personal feelings aside, discussions that fill up with personal attacks have a tangible consequence. On the other hand, personal feelings and participation are front and center in the guidelines we crafted at Hypergrid Business since most of the rules are meant to ensure a baseline of civility and accommodating interactions.

        I think just having moderation is itself a reminder to consider the impact that words have. Hypergrid Business discussions are doing well and very little direct intervention has been required. It’s clear that most commenters want an opportunity to be involved in the evolution of this technology and aren’t looking to disparage anyone. With moderation there is a community-building layer between the extremes of no limits mud-slinging and shutting down forums altogether.

        Best wishes on your new approach.

        • They already HAD moderation. It will be fun to see how they can moderate even more than they did.

          However, this just in….Apparently we are all wasting our time anyway. Anybody got any ideas what else we can all do now????

          Perhaps we should just throw up our hands and just go to inwz??

          “TranquillityDexler Post subject: Re: The State of Virtual Society– why no “clone”

          Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:30 pm Admin
          Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:44 pm
          Posts: 3815The market for SL based VR has proven saturated. There has been no real growth in unique user numbers in opensim based grids for years. This is the core of the problem. Most places showing any region growth give out dree regions in some form which count on their stats.

          We’re working with other industries to attract users by proxy to InWorldz. We’re doing this by (and I have to be intentionally vague) bringing “stuff” that the average person would want to see and do into the world and letting the MMO/VW part be secondary to that. But relationships and contracts take time to forge.

          I’m also not seeing some huge incentive for people to leave here unless they’re giving up on VWs entirely. While there are some wizz bang type things going on in the VW space, none of them have proven viable to attract new attention yet.”

          • lmpierce

            Two issues here…

            As I read it, InWorldz moderation was basically an on-off switch; they allowed virtually everything or shut down out-of-control discussions entirely. When I act as moderator for Hypergrid Business, or write about moderation in general, I’m relating to a process that operates between those two extremes. I think InWorldz can definitely implement a more nuanced form of moderation than they did, but it’s also more time consuming, and will always be imperfect in any event. Their first step of establishing limits and guidelines helps because it creates a common standard everyone can make reference to.

            In following up on the excerpt posted here, it turns out TranquillityDexler added an immediate follow-up to his thoughts and expressed hope that there should be areas that show promise for development and future opportunities. The post even makes reference to sister platforms, so it seems to me the perspective is broad and encouraging.

          • I don’t go to the trouble of copying most of the stuff I notice on their forums [and have not been in that grid for over a year now], so most of what I see there is from past knowledge connecting with the forums stuff I read every few days in a kinda fyi thing as I go along in my morning social site rounds. Combined with emails and such occasional talks with current members there who are also out and about.

            Otherwise, if I copied out other related comments there I could more clearly speak to all this, and what you are saying. I am not interested in that, however, let’s dissect this a bit since I have the entire day ahead of me now…lol.

            The caveat, of course, being that I know most people could actually care less, some just like to stir the pot for their own various reasons, agendas and motivations…most of which I am no longer interested in answering.

            But, since it is you, Lawrence, I will make an exception…lol

            Firstly, inwz forums moderation, which is one of two main things related to this article, really, was moderated already, more so that the new moderation you do here now.

            Here, at this time [and hopefully going forward], you allow all but guest accounts to post immediately [as I have been able to determine, but I could be missing something as it all has not really been my primary focus]…inwz did not do that. It was even mentioned someplace there somewhat recently [which defined as within the last few months or so].

            As well, the people who are the perpetrators of this latest drama are [and were, it seems] favorites in the grid, and have been around a bit of time, pay in much money and have much influence there, and could post pretty much as they wished [altho some get edited by mods, some comments get deleted, and many comments are changed due to off-forums conversations –that part I know of from when I used to comment there before I quit–].

            This particular issue was a culmination of drama where a main contract scripter/helper person ended up leaving. I suspect, personally, he will go back there, and as well, it is even possible he is still there in some regards….that would take logging in and getting connected again, all of which I will not do…so some of this is conjecture due to that, and anyone can feel free to correct that with FACTS and FULL disclosure [which, fyi, will not happen, so I am safe there…lolol].

            Now, the other issue is the loss of income. This, also, is a red herring. The only reason this particular one got so much play is due to the people involved. inwz has lost many more regions and it was mostly kept on the QT and as they say in politics, with a wink and a nod.

            They lost 2 land barons last year, one of which I know for sure had just concentrated more on their SL holdings…but the other was not mentioned in public, I knew from friends. Both of which held around 100 regions [anyone can be free to correct me to the exact count if they wish to even admit it happened…so, again, I am safe there, too].

            As well, the land baron I used to work for there [once I calculated I worked for .40 cents per hour…yippee!!] had dropped something like 40 of their limited use scenic regions [used to be priced at 20 a month and very, very limited and may still be at that price] and several [ I can’t recall the exact number but it was like 20 or so] full regions, for which she pays discounts from the full normal pricing of 75 due to her having so many, the year before, during some months after I left working for her.

            So, you see, when David makes such comments as this particular snippet “The market for SL based VR has proven saturated. There has been no real growth in unique user numbers in opensim based grids for years. This is the core of the problem. Most places showing any region growth give out dree [sic] regions in some form which count on their stats.” and knowing a few more bits of info, you can easily see that –in fact– from “their” perspective, this is true…within that thread and this blog http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blogs/destroying-the-box you can connect more dots and see that others who are very invested in that grid, see this as reality also.

            When it is NOT reality, at all.

            Now, my own issue with that is seeing that the Meta, outside of inwz, is doing very, very well. I know this for a fact, and you can see the passion involved with all sorts of projects going on, from the Kitely paradigm changer to Aviworlds, to the Metropolis things they are doing, to what Zetamex does, to the improvements core OS is doing [which is leaving inwz further and further behind and which maybe I will speak to more in details if I keep my mood in all this…lol]..and even to vocal ppl such as Joe who pushes the envelope with Mike Hart in vehicles which far surpass what inwz has.

            I find it insulting and dismissive of David to think that [which by that one snippet anyone can imagine that he says it otherwise, and in fact, he does, in all sorts of ways].

            And I think many of us participating and helping and using and enjoying the greater, and growing Meta outside of inwz, should be insulted also.

            Then you see this “I’m also not seeing some huge incentive for people to leave here unless they’re giving up on VWs entirely. While there are some wizz bang type things going on in the VW space, none of them have proven viable to attract new attention yet.”

            Now, one can say that this is just him [and by extension, one would hope, as one would hope the owners there think similarly or they should find new partners] trying to do something to stop the bleeding of residents and/or an attempt to retain ppl by saying, really, “Look folx, there is us and there is SL and if you do not like either, just go do something else as nobody else has the cool toys we have”.

            The dismissive attitude in this snippet should be insulting to many here, also. Because, to dissect it, while he dismisses what we are all doing, and all the cool things going on otherwise in the greater Meta, he also simply says “go find something else to do”.

            So despite his words in some places [maybe even in past HGB comments], he is NOT FOR US, because otherwise he would mention it in all sorts of ways, don’t ya think? Like Kitely does, and like most of us do, even to mentioning inwz at all in this website.

            Now, “some” may think this is just business, but I suggest it is negative business. And if you connect this snippet with other things they do there [such as dismiss their detractors or insult them or threaten them–yes, the ” sue ” thing was brought up by a contract employee of inwz who dropped into the Kitely forums once –try doing the same thing in the inwz forums, i dare ya, and double dare ya–], then you can better understand the mindset of them simply thinking they are the goto grid and nobody else even matters…despite that if any of them come back later and try to backpedal.

            Fortunately, however, none of that matters, as this single instance connected with others from their direction and the simple fact they made such a big deal out of this specific one, shows what I have been saying for some time now…that being that since they do not wish to play with the rest of us, and think they are the only game in town, then they are reaping what they sow, which is how businesses fail, all the time.

            They could, however, change this, but since I think the Meta needs such a place I will not be the one to make such suggestions…I am perfectly fine with how they do business and since they seem to think they know what they are doing, despite the contrary evidence in so many regards, then I am safe there, as well…lol

            I do agree with what others said here, but it is a matter of spitting in the wind with them, there is no point in wasting time and energy pointing out what they could or should do, as they will never listen….and this is a good thing.

            My point in even doing this comment is not TO them, but to US, the rest of the greater Meta doing damn cool things. We can safely ignore inwz and move along.

            If you, or anyone else, wishes to properly and decently answer to this comment, I may answer, otherwise I won’t….and it is really more than I like to spend my time with in the first place.

            I need to go add some cool regions in Kitely to tell folx to HG to them now, if they wish-))

          • Joe Builder

            This time I did spit up my coffee on the monitor after reading this, After I reflected on your earlier comment “<–haz nuthin' to say on this matter………………………………" You go girl 🙂

          • I just did not want to disappoint you, Joe…[at least to much]-)))) and, besides, I have a rep to maintain…………………

          • lmpierce

            Hi Minethere,

            I appreciate that you took the time to organize your thoughts and share them.

            It would be confusing if InWorldz already had nuanced moderation but then complained about comment abuses. One would wonder how those abuses were allowed in the first place and thereby created issues. If I take TranquillityDexler at his word, he explains that residents have experienced personal attacks over time and have been discouraged from participating. This was an issue at Hypergrid Business and is a rather straightforward and believable case of cause and effect.

            At Hypergrid Business, the goal of moderation is to make the forums welcoming and inviting, so the challenge is to watch for the jabs and rough edges that might prevent that. Lacking sufficient knowledge of their practices, I cannot speak directly to comparisons with InWorldz, but it sounds like whatever system they were using was not working to their satisfaction, and the reaction is to start looking more carefully at commenter posts that bring down the whole community. To that I would wish them well. I do think the style of implementation is important. At HB some inappropriate comments can make it through initially, only to be moderated and removed later. Nonetheless, this has been working out well, and is a credit to the community.

            The impact of abusive comments is hard to quantify and in my mind has definite social costs, but less clear economic costs. Again, without having more first-hand knowledge, I take the story as written and accept that a customer is leaving InWorldz due to excessive comment abuses (I acknowledge there may be more to that story). Yet I would add that my own sense of things is that while the impact of non-moderation is potentially toxic discussions, I do not assume this has a direct economic impact in all cases. I have found that most discussions on many news sites degenerate fairly rapidly into abusive slurs between a handful of people – and yet the publication goes on. I suspect this is because most people expect the comments section to be filled with vitriol and attacks and worse, so they avoid reading comments altogether, while still reading the main stories as always. I’m aiming higher than that for Hypergrid Business, not for economic reasons, but rather for community/social benefits.

            As for the comments regarding the current status of virtual worlds in the world, that’s a whole other huge topic worthy of additional articles and ongoing discussions. But I hear that you feel insulted by some of the statements you read. Given that the comments were written in an InWorldz forum, it’s understandable that there would be some chauvinism and focus there about InWorldz. Still, I get that you see potential in virtual worlds and have been an observer of many interesting developments, so coming upon a less inclusive perspective, it’s bound to sound arrogant and too negative.

            As you suggest, the best reaction in any event is to continue working towards a desirable and attainable future.

          • Good answer. As I said, and have said, in so many words in several places, and including in HGB [my discuss has all that stuff and nonsense open to anyone to view…I never have seen the need to use the disqus ability to privatize my comments], I am not especially invested or interested in this topic anymore.

            I once was, but it was mixed in with being very annoyed, and it showed…lol..that’s all old history now though some from there like to rear their ugly heads and say nonsense related to all that, it hardly matters to me and it is a “speaking to their choir” sorta thing, easily ignored.

            As many know I am now focused on hypergating aspects and connecting ppl, because it seems clear as day to my eyes that this is the future of all this, at least in the near future [defined as the next few years, like up to 3 or so]. Kitely seems to think so for now also, which is why they are taking the risks needed to move this all forward, and I am all for that.

            Of course I have also seen the underbelly, up close and personal, as to the negatives that come from the commercialized aspects, and for me, personally, “once bitten, twice shy” is a good motto. [tho since I am a dumbass it took 3 times…lol]..and not just with inwz, most of which I never speak to publicly as it tends to help ppl to divert the real issues.

            I generally, as I am saying, do not go to the trouble, time and info gathering to point out disinformation, misinformation, and incomplete information that often goes for “news” in the Meta, currently. It just takes too much energy and diverts my focus from things that actually DO matter.

            Like this I just updated-))) http://minethere.blogspot.com/2013/06/kitely-grid.html

            However, since it is still my morning and my hair is drying, let me see what I can add.

            Firstly, I think inwz did not bring this matter outside of their own forums in the first place.

            Others can speak to that if they wish to.

            inwz is not interested in bringing such internal issues and drama to the publics’ eyes…they want ppl to think it is all roses and unicorns there, when anyone with half a lick of sense can see otherwise.

            And all this is always a tip of the iceberg thing.

            Now, why I can connect dots well is 1) by my nature, and 2) due to that nature I was once an excellent skip tracer [I will leave what that is to those who know or can google it…lol]. I did that for a couple of years and the only reason I left was there are downsides to it that I did not like. The things I learned doing that have stayed with me for many years now.

            However, you MUST be able to drill down into things, make sometimes very disparate connections, know and use various tools, in order to do the job right.

            Now, when I left posting in the inwz forums [dunno, like 3 or 4 yrs ago, I don’t feel like looking it up] the reason I stopped was not due to being moderated [via IMs from Beth and my old boss] but because it was impossible to say anything intelligent there without getting barraged by nonsense [similar in kind to SLU mainly because many of the same ppl dwell there also…wonder why???]. At that time I was connected and got tons of info about what was going on there, got several bits of favoritism myself, and was told all sorts of things in confidence [the vast majority of which will remain so].

            And this is the root of this issue as well. Nothing changes there and nothing ever will, and as I said, I am totally fine with this.

            I think we can all agree that all this VR stuff is run by ppl who have their own visions on how it should be done. Ilan and Oren have theirs, the Metro admins have theirs, Alex has his, and on and on. As well, most ppl do not have actual professional experience running a business in the brick and mortar world, it is all virtual stuff.

            Due to this, in major part, because it is the case on the net and the case in this microsm of the net, there is tons of drama, and for all sorts of reasons, so much so that some people simply cannot differentiate the truth from drama [and often their own drama that even sometimes they have no clue they are participating in].

            Obversely, taking myself as an example, I sometimes do what others call drama as a tool for getting my own personal thoughts out. I actually recently found this quote that is similar to this aspect of myself.

            “Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.” ~Sun Tzu, The Art of War

            Which is, imo, excellent advice in how to deal with some types of ppl.

            Now, you take David, and others, at face value, and more power to ya, but I see most people as more complex creatures. I do not see, to give a good example of someone who comments here often, Joe, as simply someone who likes to say good things about inwz sometimes….mainly because I see what he says in other places….I do not see joe as that “shill” type at all.

            One can also connect a few dots, and read in a few places, and know a few things, and know why Beth, the majority owner of inwz, no longer comments in places she cannot control. This is not because she is busy with inwz, god forbid, she used to talk my damnable ears off when I know I was busy, and once I told her she should be fixing a problem with one of our customers regions rather than bend my ear…ach!!], but it is because she is better at sending out the troops, so to speak, and keeping herself insulated.

            Heck, that’s cool too, but, in fact, it is part of the issue here, really, that of doing negative tactics, not just seen in part here, but in all sorts of ways.

            So, again, none of this I say will ever be the full picture as I just don’t much care….but, I DO care where it effects the greater Metaversum. This is the cautionary tale, and we should all be aware of this.

            Not sure if I will keep this going, at least today.

  • Joe Builder

    Inworldz, Prepare yourself for all the professionals to chime in there 2 cents haha this is going to get humorous.

  • <–haz nuthin' to say on this matter………………………………

    • hold on a minute har, you stupid cowgirl!! you just said something!! grrrr…you are a complete and utter dumbass, you know this, right?????? now go milk the cows and shut up………………………

    • Joe Builder

      Almost spit up my coffee all over my monitor reading that 🙂 There is a glimmer of hope for you after all. LOL kidding :)~

  • natalie_0

    The problem with inworldz is not the forums but instead the actual community. My partner and I we joined inworldz together back in 2010, at first things were really nice but then a few years later this big click of people started to form. There were days that I cried myself to sleep because of some of the horrible things that were said to me about my sexuality and also my partner. What I don’t understand is we all go to a virtual world to get away from the drama of real life and the hate and to have an easier way of being accepted. Having left second life and moving over our home to inworldz we had felt that it would be a good home for us but later on found out it wasn’t as it changed. When the harassment started against me and my partner we did go to a mentor and was told that people in inworldz have freedom of speech and that there is nothing they could do and to just ignore it. Sadly the problems got even worse, and worse, and worse we started being constantly harassed by the clicks of people. We tried our best to ignore this and not give fuel to the fire except one day my partner she went to go shopping in the normal spots she would shop at as she was a big shopaholic and to her surprise she found herself banned from not only 1 region but several regions, later on we were even banned from our own home that we rented in a big estate owners land. When we would contact the region owners they would not respond to us, we later found out that it was the same click of people going around causing us to get banned from regions all standing up together. TO me this is not freedom of speech this is harassment and why my partner and I left. When we reported this to mentors they didn’t care no one cared about the pain we were going through or the harrassment, we were again thrown in our face that people have freedom of speech and they can have their own opinion. We also know we are not alone in how we were treated by these clicks of people because also we have met others that have been treated the same way harassed for sexuality etc and even made fun of. What I will never understand is how can people get together and be so evil. in 2012 we decided to depart inworldz and it was sadly one of the best decisions that we made. No matter how much pain my partner and I were in over this we hope that inworldz can turn this around we personally will never go back it has to many bad memories and even thinking the name just makes my stomach drop and I also made a promise to my partner I would not put myself through this again as it made me very sick in real life. Our message to the residents of inworldz please if you are being hated on or harassed please stand up let your voice be heard and all fight together. Dear inworldz owner please make more strict rules, don’t allow harassment at all or defaming of residents, you as owners have this power take action after all you guys are the leaders right now in alternative grid choice besides sl. Take action on these people start bans start suspensions something don’t let people get away with this its now on your hands and the damage of these residents harassing other residents is now starting to come afloat please don’t let others be put in the same situation as my partner and I. Bless you all and I have attached a picture of exactly as how I feel!

    • hack13

      I know from experience and not just virtual experiences, I am an open homosexual. I have been through tons of harassment, and even when I was 18 years old I had to run away from home because the abuse. I have come a long way, and now run my own business. So hang in there, and I know its horrible and hard, but there are people out there you can talk too.

  • Zany

    I think you are so right Natalie_0:) And compliments for your courage to post this very personal message.

  • Mircea Kitsune

    Ahhh… I’m glad to see a place on this internet where attitude against such psychopaths is being taken. As much as I support freedom of expression to all degrees, I’m sick of these people plaguing the internet. In many places you can barely read a comment section without seeing personal attacks of all shapes and forms… including violent death threats in some occasions.

    As someone who deals with internet trolls constantly and knows their ways, I advice any grid admin to be careful and not let this spread. When a community / website becomes large and popular, there comes a time when the ghetto of the internet is going to step in too. If the problem is ignored, the community risks turning into a place like 4chan, and becoming a home for bullying and attacks.

    I’m glad InWorldz noticed this problem when it came to their doorstep, and took action to keep it from getting worse. I wish other important places, such as Youtube / Google+ where the problem exists at its finest, decided to do something about it too.

  • Samantha Atkins

    Sounds like over-reaction to me. I check out forums of theirs periodically to see how the world feels to me and whether there is enough there to consider reestablishing a presence inWorldz. Yes forum require a bit of moderation. But it isn’t too hard, especially on relatively low forum volume that seems the norm inWorldz. Warn and delete offending posts and comments and after 1-3 warnings toss the user from the forum. Not too hard. Threatening to shut down a community resource like forums is what I consider over-reaction.

    The main reasons I am not there?
    1) no MOAP,
    2) price not so great for a closed opensim grid;
    3) no freedom of region backups and restores;
    4) being behind on opensim improvements (though in fairness improving others).

    • Tranquillity (InWorldz)

      1) We’ve supported MOAP for a long time now.
      2) Our prices support full time software developers, support staff, contractors, as well as supplying always on regions. Having a solid business plan based on our current pricing has allowed us to complete very complex development projects.
      3) We supply 7 days of region backup space included in the price. There is an automated panel that allows a user to roll back to a previous date. Allowing export utilizing an export permission is on the roadmap.
      4) Arguable depending on which features and areas of stability you look at. As you stated. We’ve concentrated on different projects that mainline opensim based on customer feedback.

      We are working at stronger moderation on the forum. I don’t think we’ll have to resort to removing them. As far as low volume, you probably should check out active topics of which 15 were posted to multiple times today, and 18 active topics the day before that. That is too many for people who already have full schedules to watch. (we need a dedicated moderator)

  • ok ok OK!! I gotz the answer!! SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET!!! GO PLAY OUTSIDE [I suggest hide and seek] yippeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

  • Birch Wind

    Ive been an active IW member for a few years now and IW has an amazing community. I interact with alot of various community members, have many gblt friends, and participate regularly in adult events and haven’t heard or witnessed anything of the likes being discussed above.
    IW itself has not ‘created this’ themselves – damned either way really:
    1) get hard on people and everyone screams censorship
    2) try to step back and allow things to be solved, and people get mad that no one cares.
    IW isn’t a multimillion dollar company like SL with a huge support staff and hundreds of people sitting around waiting to babysit – ideally we should be able to govern ourselves. However as grids grow, and population increases, these sorts of issues are bound to happen – ultimately its the PEOPLE that cause the problems. People need to grab some ownership on that.
    AND people need to learn to be decent to each other. Behind each avatar is a person.