Virtual Lisbon crowdfunder seeks $1 from OpenSim users

Virtual Lisbon. (Image courtesy Carlos Loff.)

Virtual Lisbon. (Image courtesy Carlos Loff.)

The crowdfunding campaign for a Virtual Lisbon grid is up and running again, asking OpenSim users to contribute just $1 each to the project.

Carlos Loff

Carlos Loff

The founder, Carlos Loff is an experienced virtual worlds builder and community manager, and has been active in Second Life since 2007. This is his fourth try to get the project funded, with the most recent attempt being last fall on IndieGoGo.

Virtual Lisbon can already be visited online on the Loff Virtual Worlds grid, where it occupies the equivalent of 256 standard regions, or nearly 17 square kilometers. Its hypergrid address is login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Lisbon Utopia.

“It is the biggest metaverse real city project,” Loff said in an announcement today.

The crowdfunding campaign is seeking a total of $3,300 to cover hosting fees for the next twelve months, events, and virtual content.

Loff said that several people have already contributed to the project, including AviWorlds owner Alex Ferraris, and early supporters Selby Evans, Fred Beckhusen, Gwyneth Llewelyn, Sebastian Guła, and Trrlynn73.

Lisbon Utopia. (Image courtesy Carlos Loff.)

Lisbon Utopia. (Image courtesy Carlos Loff.)

 

Most of the project is still under construction, Loff said, but there is already a small central area that people can visit, with some freebies, event venues, and residential areas. There is also a sandbox, located at login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Lisbon Sandbox.

“People will be able to furnish their own homes, attend concerts, fairs and workshops, explore virtual museums and monument replicas, rent a store or office and run a bar, theater or school,” Loff said in the announcement. “What makes Lisbon special are elements such as unparalleled city size and continuity, building and texturing accuracy, full usage and interactivity of buildings, objects and living things, everything brought alive with many community activities and dynamics, including hiring many artists and lecturers.”

Loff’s campaign offers special access and uses to backers and a free piece of land to top supporters, with freedom to develop their own vision of business, education or entertainment activities.

maria@hypergridbusiness.com'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China.

  • Carlos Loff

    Many thanks, I will see Lisbon done and alive even if it takes my whole life, cheers and long life to OS

  • Da Hayward

    Carlos is doing a great job with the Virtual Lisbon Project.

  • Cinder Biscuits
    • Carlos Loff

      I said third on the press release, but may I ask you why is so important to comment just that ? Yes, I will make 345 attempts to try and bring many stuff for free, maybe even one more on top of that, I would just love to understand why you did not bother to help but bothered to come here (and it gave you some work at least) to remind us all it is the third or the second – Wish people were more constructive – Ohh, and keep gathering links, there will be more and more and more attempts, one thing is for sure, whoever helps get´s the promised elements from ME, and that is what is really important

      • Heck, I love your spirit, no matter how long it takes, or even if you have to change the model eventually.

        I am that trrlynn73 who donated 5 bucks and I would do it again if or when I can-)

        Entrepreneurship is not for everyone, but they do make the world go ’round.

        • Carlos Loff

          Many thanks and you can help a lot but sharing the Campaign link on your social medias, believe me, many people read your stuff and consider it important, regardless of real trolls messing with you, lol, thanks again and I will update your name now, cheers

          • ah well, I just mentioned the donation as part of my comment, you don’t need to highlight it by changing it, at least as far as I am concerned.

            I especially like the trolls who are people who are trolls but call other people trolls…kinda confusing, but it also applies to drama queens, if you think about it….how many people have you noticed creating drama then calling the folks who respond drama queens…weird quirk of human nature I guess.

          • Carlos Loff

            In Portugal we have a Saying that it must be inspired in old America peregrines – Dogs bark and the caravan passes by

          • Da Hayward

            I know Carlos through AviWorlds/AviLabs & one of the biggest issues is always the language barrier, my personal opinion is Carlos is a straight up guy and most definitely a tryer…he wont give up. The Way i read the Article is that Virtual Lisbon will go ahead no matter what, all he is doing is asking for a bit of support to streamline the process.
            I wish Carlos well in his endeavour.

          • Carlos Loff

            You just put it on the right way – I left my safe job some years ago and Im struggling to overcome as a Photography Freelance Teacher so money is not abundant at all, I go out less and buy less clothes, etc, but on the bright side I do not put up with a Boss and things will surely get better – But since SL on 2007 I always saw the potential for creativity and even business

            I would love to have 3.000 dollars aside and just spend endless hours giving Virtual Lisbon a boost, so that is why some donations can be precious

            I don´t wan the burden of renting lands and deal with grid techs etc, I want a massive mega city well alive with independent people developing their projects without the stress of renting and profiting fast

            I want a unique mega world very much alive with interesting projetcs, not just parties and stores and finally, when all the power of Opensim is harnessed in one single mega city, than I will captivate sponsors and even four fill my dream of making a living out of Virtual Worlds

            Ok, long story here but just wanted to put it in context – Although your simple objective paragraph sums it up very well

          • Osaka Harker

            I am sure you are aware Portugal had many caravans passing by barking dogs before any “American peregrines” as you put it even existed

          • Carlos Loff

            Yeps, our most famous poet, Luis de Camões created a character on a kind of Iliad he wrote about the Portuguese discovering new worlds, and that character was called – Velho do Restelo – Old Man from Restelo – He was always warning the sailors they would only find monsters and storms and never reach any land over there

          • Carlos Loff

            I know darling, you are not vain, but each to it´s own and you surely believe in my project and deserve your name to be on the everlasting walls of Lisbon

          • Thank you. I think one of the best things about opensim is that people can stretch their imagination as far as it can go….there is not really all that many limits especially as compared to commercial grids who are trying to optimize their profits.

            I don’t think anything I say is important, really. I just do what I want to do to pass the time as quickly as possible from waking until sleeping. I am a stupid old woman who has made too many mistakes and I want to try and balance that somehow. Opensim gives me an opportunity to share other people’s ideas and talents, and that pleases me to do.

      • Cinder Biscuits

        You want to know why I spent 30 seconds googling a link so that this article is accurate instead of sending you my hard earned money so you can spend it on your hobby? I think you can figure that one out on your own.

        • Carlos Loff

          It is written on all campaigns where your money is spent and it is four filled be Me right as it is written and promised – I have done much more in Virtual Lisbon, so far, than the donations allowed on previous campaigns calculations and schedules so – WHAT SEAMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM – Considering the above undeniable fact that you can check right now by yourself visiting Lisbon ???

          • I obviously can’t speak for Cinder, but I find it relatively humorisitc that someone who at every opportunity speaks of how free everything in OpenSim MUST BE to keep it pure and free from commercialism, is asking for “major” (all is relative) funding for a project that a) seems to be about making the biggest VAR and b) is your private compassion.

            After all Cinder is putting in major effort in coding both server side and in the viewers – something that makes it all possible.

          • Carlos Loff

            There is a huge difference between saying – Fund Me or else I wont do it and saying – Help me make it all free quicker

            Im asking for 1 dollar per Opensimer and everyone will enjoy much more resources than just one dollar they spent – I will do it all anyway, it will just take much much longer without the total amount – I ask for everyones little effort – 1$ – to reach everyones major compensation – I do not know how can that be humoristic, Crowdfund it’s just about that – Giving a bit and getting reward

            But do not worry – Even without the funding Lisbon will be there for all of you – Don’t help, is simple, just don’t doubt of my intentions until I have proven otherwise, many thanks – TIME WILL TELL

          • There is noting wrong with crowdfunding and I am sure you will reach your goal of making virtual Lisbon a reality, but you have to stop calling it FREE to all OpenSim.

            You are asking $3000 upfront for something that is of limited utility and not only that, but if your budget is right you will need another $1000 per yer just to keep the servers running.

            How is that different then me asking $2.50 for a bridge on Kitely, or someone asking KC 2000 for an animation set, or whatever is traded in grid or real currencies?

            OpenSim is not only about FREE. OpenSim is an enabler for people to develop be it personally, artistically, commercially, professionally or whatever creativity or expression they can come up with. Like many other open source projects there are no restrictions on its use, including commercial, except following the license it is distributed under.

            So the next time you flock to a discussion condemning anyone who “wants to make a buck”, you also have to think about the $3000 you are asking “for free”, right?

          • Carlos Loff

            You should at least read what I write , here goes again – There is a huge difference between saying – Fund Me or else I wont do it and saying – Help me make it all free quicker

            So there is nothing upfront, the projects goes on even without a dime from Opensimers

            There is nothing wrong with paying Models and nothing wrong with free models

            Apple or Microsoft wins by selling products, Yahoo or Facebook wins by selling publicity on a free users platform, I go for this second model

            And it is all free, I ask for help, donations, nothing UPFRONT

            You can go now to Lisbon, the already built (UTOPIA VAR) and just, FOR FREE – I REPEAT – FOR FREE NOW:
            – Get a furnished bungalow on a coral lagoon
            – Open you own club and manage events
            – Open your own office, store
            – Organize a huge concert or meeting/conference
            – Use a 4X4 Sandbox with specific testing grounds
            – Setup an exhibit on Photography, Sculpts or others
            – Create an specific project and get 1 entire 256X256 with 2k prims to develop it
            – Have fun with animals, vehicles and more stuff coming every day

            YOU CAN DO IT NW FOR FREE – NO NEED TO REGISTER ON THE GRID AND NO NEED TO DONATE

            OH YES, IT’S 100% FREE NOW FOR YOU OR ANYONE ELSE, JUST GO AND USE IT

          • Carlos Loff

            A LIE – I DON´T DO THAT – I have choosen Lisbon with an all free strategy but is just my project – I HAVE NEVER DEFENDED EVERYTHING SHOULD BE BETTER IF FREE ON OS/HG – Quality requires funding

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Relax Carlos, all I did was post three links. By the looks of it, the article was changed again anyways to say it’s the fourth attempt. I don’t have any problem, you’re free to do what you want, but I feel it is important that accurate information is presented for people to make the decision whether to pay for your hobby or not.

            Already, there’s a discrepancy in your budgeting. You say in one gofundme that 12 months of hosting costs $600 USD, in the next go fund me, you say it’s $900 USD. Same thing with building costs, that more than doubled. The history of your fundraising also decries that you desperately need to money to run, yet you’re unable to raise even 1% of the costs you present. That doesn’t seem like a very sustainable model.

            Personally, I don’t have any use for yet more free land. I have regions on three grids that I pay nothing for already. Others likely feel differently. I have nothing against your project at all, btw, I’m just voicing an opinion.

            Best of luck meeting your funding goal.

          • Carlos Loff

            Thank you, I just need people to understand the following – I can do it on my own if there is no support – Actually many features are there already to be used, more than it was planed for the few funds I got – but it will take me much much much longer to do it on my spare time – Funding makes it quicker because I wont have to build and script so much (ready contents purchase) and because I can use more hours per day on it (make my usual freelance photography activity part/time and Opensim the other half)

          • Susannah Avonside

            I think that rather than stress the access to events venues and really capable sandboxes VL would be much better off being promoted by it’s unique selling point, and that is that it’s a 3D virtual recreation of a real life city, and that it’s a project that you have a passion for, and that you intend to do it, but that people should visit, and if they like what they see, then they can make donations to help speed along the project, and also to maintain it. There are many events venues in OpenSim, and at the moment all of them are relatively small. It may be that a time will come when mega venues are needed, just as is the case in the real world. Big venues and free to use sandboxes that have huge capabilities are nice, but seem to me to be a bit of a solution looking for a problem. If a creator wants a sandbox it’s simplicity itself to fire up an instance of OpenSim running purely locally which obviates the worry of possible piracy as it’s not accessible from outside..

            I hope I don’t sound negative, but I did genuinely feel my spirits sink a little to arrive at Utopia, which to me just seemed like yet another ‘utopian’ styled OpenSim build that is too big and alienating. I suggested using a 3D recreation of a square or piazza as a welcome area as it would give something of a flavour of what people could expect from Virtual Lisbon. The now defunct Speculoos grid had as it’s welcome area the beginnings of a recreation of Brussels’ Grande Place, and though the build was far from complete, visitors nonetheless had a foretaste of what they could expect to see, should the ever project ever achieve completion.

            People can access sandboxes on any grid, or even create their own. People can visit events venues on most grids, and also can set up home as most grids have some land set aside so people can do just that, all at no financial cost. What is unique about Virtual Lisbon is that very fact that it is Virtual Lisbon, created by someone who has great knowledge and love, as well as passion for the city and the project. I don’t think Virtual Lisbon needs ‘gimmicks’ such as offers of free land, or the possibility of staging events there in a huge stadium for free. I think it’d be great to see social events staged in a Virtual Lisbon, but surely that is also part of the charm? Why not have real life Lisbon artists and performers staging events in Virtual Lisbon, thus furthering the appeal of the build.

            I don’t know if it’s possible, (it should be) but why not include a donation pay point, (or something equivalent) in every newly created part of the build as it progresses, so people can show their appreciation and encouragement.

            Obviously it’s your build, and of course you will know exactly the way in which you want to achieve it. But I don’t think that so far what you are trying to do actually does justice to the project as a whole, and if anything it rather seems to me that you are overselling aspects that are a commonplace of virtually anywhere in the OpenSim Metaverse rather than having full confidence in the fundamental stated aim of the project, which is nothing less than to recreate, in a 3D digital form an entire major European city that is at least on a par with cities such as Venice or Barcelona. The scale and scope of the project alone are such that many people, myself included, would be, if not wetting ourselves with excitement, at the very least very interested, and based on what we see as a taster for things to come, may well be happy to contribute the equivalent of a dollar to the cause – as you rightly say, it’s not a lot of money.

          • Carlos Loff

            You know what ? You nailed it, you are completely right and you would never sound negative because you state your opinion and arguments

            I have donation boxes, they are wonderful because can be paid to Paypal directly Inworld, a fantastic creation of Kayaker Magic

            Thank you for a constructive criticism and very rational and objective suggestions – I think what I should do and should not do is exactly what you pointed out

            What you wrote is exactly what I have been considering about the best strategy

            Cheers

          • 1derworld

            Carlos I don’t think anyone here was on the attack, Its more like constructive criticism or just plain ole opinions to help you along with your project. I suppose that’s what forums are made for.

          • Carlos Loff

            When I open a Crowdfund and ask for trust and when I have done already Inworld much more that what I promised for the few funds donated, coming here and pointing my project looks fishy is a very unfair thing to do in a Forum, is not objective and rightfully argumented

            If you bother to read all the posts and answers you will see I agree with many strong direct criticism because it is laid with arguments and everyone has the right to disagree or not to like it, I even agreed with some strong critics to the project, I have too because in the end is not for Me, is for all os Us

            But you will also see with no doubt other type of nasty strong words comments that are more for teasing and arousing suspicions, more non-constructive than for an objective opinion and I reacted very differently with each type

            I understand what you mean but only half the posts are the type you mean and very rightfully of course

            But once again, someone needs the patience to read it all again

          • How you run your projects is none of my business but there is one thing I take exception to:

            You are often in the front line screaming bloody murder when people want to monetize their OpenSim or content development, but in reality you do exactly the same. The only difference is that you do it the typical European socialist way of collecting other people’s money only to hand them out for “free” to others.

          • Carlos Loff

            THAT IS A COMPLETE LYE – Show me one line, one link, one sentence where I have ever said people should not charge for something – I advocate ONLY FOR MYSELF the Free strategy, I m all for business and in the long run my goal is to have an incoming from Virtual Worlds – PLEASE DO NOT lie about me and Im waiting for a link or an article where I ever once stated that people should not charge for services or goods – You really took your time to come here and put me down with false accusations – No frontline and no campaign for frees – After all there are TROLLS on Opensim, not many but the few there are are really TROLLING HARD – IM DONE WITH YOU – Lying and accusing falsely is a game I will not feed – FORGET IT

          • Cinder Biscuits

            If it takes reading a dozen times to understand, it’s not very clear.

          • lmpierce

            Once again, comments have been deleted… Everyone, time to tone it down.

          • Carlos Loff

            Any long-term project evolves, I find out some stuff becomes easier and some stuff becomes more difficult. sometimes I plan to buy stuff that later I build myself or find for free, also Lisbon has moved from Kitely to Aviworlds and than to Avilabs, always growing in size and features, also the server host has improved and grown, it is a work in progress project, so is quite natural that the budget changes, but the main core is – I will do it anyway, regardless of collecting 100 dollar or 5000 dollar donation, it will just take me longer

          • Cinder Biscuits

            You plan to buy stuff and then find it for free and that makes the price for “Freelance Building” go up? That doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense. It might be better to just be honest and say you’re making a virtual city and would like donations instead of pretending there’s an actual business plan in place.

          • Carlos Loff

            It was a list of examples, just like the rest but you just picked up the sentence and number you needed to make it all sound weird – You said it was strange for budgets to change – Im explaining that >>> While some examples are for less budget another examples are for more budget, I was not making the exact account, I was explaining you the factors that make a long term project budget go up and down, while the builds and scripts can be overcome with time and make it CHEAPER, the HOSTING for example has gone up – At Kitely with a 4X4 Var it was 40/month, at Aviworlds it became 50/month and now at Avilabs it is at 75/month –

            Another thing I found out is that since I begun Lisbon, good artists and performers are charging much more than before on SL, that will change that part of the budget – Bottom line and very logical for any people used to work in any sort of projects – Long Term = Budget Adaptations

            Please do not pick one factor and one number and just place them together, because you and I and everyone else knows that is not the way to look at it – The bottom line here is that I have done and build and offered MUCH MORE than promised for the funds amount donated – DID I DO SOMETHING TO UPSET YOU IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU MUST FIND SOME HOW A DISCREPANCY TO MAKE ME LOOK FISHY ??? Im transparent, my Phone Number in Portugal is (351) 91 071 01 42, my street address is Rua Raquel Roque Gameiro, 18-A R/C, 1500-540 Lisboa – I have nothing to hide

          • I don’t think anyone think you are dishonest, but your notion of “free” is fishy.
            You are asking for donations upfront that also will be used for “good artists and performers” which does not sound right at all. It would be much better / clean / fair to sell tickets and/or ask for donations at the event itself.

          • Carlos Loff

            Im getting tired of explaining you, for the third time, but here it goes again, a third time, and this time please – READ what I write you because you will understand if you read – HERE GOES

            There is a huge difference between saying – Fund Me or else I wont do it and saying – Help me make it all free quicker

            So there is nothing upfront, the projects goes on even without a dime from Opensimers

            There is nothing wrong with paying Models and nothing wrong with free models

            Apple or Microsoft wins by selling products, Yahoo or Facebook wins by selling publicity on a free users platform, I go for this second model

            And it is all free, I ask for help, donations, nothing UPFRONT

            You can go now to Lisbon, the already built (UTOPIA VAR) and just, FOR FREE – I REPEAT – FOR FREE NOW:

            – Get a furnished bungalow on a coral lagoon

            – Open you own club and manage events

            – Open your own office, store

            – Organize a huge concert or meeting/conference

            – Use a 4X4 Sandbox with specific testing grounds

            – Setup an exhibit on Photography, Sculpts or others

            – Create an specific project and get 1 entire 256X256 with 2k prims to develop it

            – Have fun with animals, vehicles and more stuff coming every day

            YOU CAN DO IT NW FOR FREE – NO NEED TO REGISTER ON THE GRID AND NO NEED TO DONATE

            OH YES, IT’S 100% FREE NOW FOR YOU OR ANYONE ELSE, JUST GO AND USE IT

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of grids are 100% free to use.

          • Carlos Loff

            Is there any Grid where you can use a 4X4 Sandbox 24/7 with 40k prims load and 24h return?

            Is there any grid where you can just arrive into a fully interactive and equipped – on region size theathre-auditorium – and check a free rental box and rezz 2.000 prims to through your events any time you like ?

            Is there any grid who offers 6 builds of 16.000 square meters each for any club owner that wants to stay on it with no rent paid and do whatever events they want ? Same amount of builds to artists to display their works

            Is there any grid that will offer around 300 homes in a mega-city for free with privacy and right to rezz prims on them ?

            Is there any grid where you can arrive and say you want to develop a specific project and you get right away a 256X256 region with 3k prims, only for you, to develop whatever you like ?

            What Grid is that ?

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Second Life, OSGrid, Digiworldz all have very similar offerings if you know where to look.

          • Carlos Loff

            Yeahhh, right, now here is an answer that really does not answer – An answer that says exactly the same as you begun, lol

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Yes, another answer where you talk about me instead of your ever shifting plan.

          • Carlos Loff

            WE ARE DONE HERE, SAY WHATEVER THE HEKLL YOU WANT – There is no ghost, Lisbon is there for everyone to go, use and judge, so NO POINT ON GIVING YOU MORE OF MY PRECIOUS TIME – YOU ARE DESTRUCTIVE

          • Cinder Biscuits

            If I give you a dollar of faith, will you continue to comment on this article?

          • Carlos Loff

            One day I was on SL defending Opensim in a meeting and someone said – NOPES, NEVER, There are too many trolls on Opensim, I know that is not true and I met many great people on Opensim but now Im starting to understand that sentence – And your last words sure tell a lot about you and what you intend to reach towards my project

            PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO READ YOU (your destructive posts), at last you varnish breaks

            And there is A LOT to use for free in Lisbon already even without a single cent donated

            You have to much free time on your hands, I don´t, I have to keep on BUILDING not DESTROYING

          • Cinder Biscuits

            And there is a lot to use in Second Life without even a single cent donated, and there is a lot to use in OSGrid without even a single cent donated. and there is a lot to use in Tangle Grid without a single cent donated, and there’s a lot to use in Aviworlds without a single cent donated (a lot of airplanes too, from what I’ve heard.) So once again, we’re back to the question of what makes Digital Lisbon different?

          • lmpierce

            Everyone: time to bring things down a notch…I’m stepping in and have started to delete comments that amount to a simmering flame war.

          • Cinder Biscuits

            1) Asking for money from the public opens your project up to scrutiny, and rightly so.
            2) I don’t believe you are being dishonest, I just don’t think your business model is solid, or even half baked at this point. It’s sort of underpants gnoming your way into success. Donation boxes may work in SL sometimes, but that doesn’t translate to the real world.
            3) Your aversion to getting funding or investors makes you come off as fickle and unwilling to have oversight into the platform you would be paying for with their money.
            4) “All I have done for Lisbon” is more than “discredit your person” since I’ve been one of two or three viewer developers in the last five years who has actually bothered to support the software your whole world runs on at all, and the only one to do it across the board for all viewers and send compatibility fixes upstream to the simulator team.
            5) The very fact that I voice my concern is beneficial to YOU because you’re crazy to think there aren’t other people with the very same concerns, and if you have answers to questions, that puts less vocal people at ease and they’ll be more likely to give you money to support your hobby.

          • Carlos Loff

            scrutiny – that is great – But if you check back your posts that is not scrutiny, that is trying desperately to make it look fishy, nothing constructive on your posts – And you can check that I have answered all questions and have thanked people that criticised some aspects, because they did it on a very constructive way

            But just attacking it like a Devil´s Advocate on any way you can is not scrutiny, is tearing down

          • Cinder Biscuits

            You haven’t answered everything actually. You answer by questioning my motives.

          • Carlos Loff

            It would be great tio have some questions and I would be glad to answer all of them, please remind me your most unanswered question and I will correct it right away

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Where are you going to find sponsors who will pay $900 to advertise to the same 25 people for a full year and make the grid sustainable? That’s the missing link in your plan.

          • Carlos Loff

            Im tired of fights, my time must be spent Inworld, building the project and community

            Lisbon is there, visit, use it, enjoy it, NOW – FOR FREE, no donations needed, no register needed

            I believe in it, I will go on and it will work, as any other project I seriously commit to

            Hope to see you there someday and we all laugh of this primal posts, honestly

            All the best

          • 1derworld

            I have 1 question and then no more 🙂 Make us understand why you need any donations for your project being everyone is doing a project build? And many do recreations of some sort. I agree Lisbon is a unique place and has many interesting places to visit. Then again so is Greece and say Rome or even Egypt. Wouldn’t it hold more value to you personally if you did it on your own without help to pay for your hosting? Why even bother to start a project with the notion you want others to pay for it. Just curious is all.

          • Carlos Loff

            Because I need help to speed up the process and do not take 1 year with only my money – But if no one helps I will do it with my money, but it will take me longer

            People that donate with 1 dollar will get much more for free than they will pay

            For example, if you give now 1$ you will be on the list to have a free 4.000 mts parcel with a fine bungalow and coral lagoon + 300 prims to rezz and is for free, as long you keep renewing the zero value rental box you can stay there forever

            Only a huge project can offer so much for so less because being huge it can reward many people in many way, even if everyone just gives away one dollar

            So you ask, if people only help once, how can I keep offering stuff forever ?

            In the Campaign I explain my strategy, here goes

            FUTURE SUSTAINABILITY ?

            The project sustainability will be assured by two main factors: Avilabs servers host discount in exchange for company promotion plus city resources and also an Inworld Paypal donations network, either by private satisfied free users or project sponsoring companies

          • 1derworld

            I might suggest you do a bit more research on connection vars together like 4×4’s and as many as you have. Take into consideration Ubode, Is not complete and 0.9 is problematic its no where near a release. So lets say all is good for you now. Add some avatars being your world looks to be built for 100’s and scripts maybe say 3000 about average unless all you builds are static. I don’t think you considered this. My only suggestion to you is Build it all in a 4×4 and it will be a pleasant experience for visitors or residents. 2 people have been making a lot of comments here Cinder and XMIR these people are very experienced and know whats best. Take there advise and happy building

          • Carlos Loff

            They know whats best but they seam more worried in attacking the project than reading it, for example Xmir has said I should not put all eggs in one basket and avoid a mega-var, when I have explained, directly to him BEFORE he said that, Im using several 4X4s and not one mega-var

          • 1derworld

            I think he meant a var is a single region regardless of size, Placing them back to back is considered a Mega var is all. Really not recommended specially for a large scale venture.

        • Carlos Loff

          It was an example, just like the rest but you just picked up the sentence and number you needed to make it all sound weird – You said it was strange for budgets to change – Im explaining that >>> While some examples are for less budget another examples are for more budget, I was not making the exact account, I was explaining you the factors that make a long term project budget go up and down, while the builds and scripts can be overcome with time and make it CHEAPER, the HOSTING for example has gone up – At Kitely with a 4X4 Var it was 40/month, at Aviworlds it became 50/month and now at Avilabs it is at 75/month –

          Please do not pick one factor and one number and just place them together, because you and I and everyone else knows that is not the way to look at it – The bottom line here is that I have done and build and offered MUCH MORE than promised for the funds amount donated – DID I DO SOMETHING TO UPSET YOU IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU MUST FIND SOME HOW A DISCREPANCY TO MAKE ME LOOK FISHY ??? Im transparent, my Phone Number in Portugal is (351) 91 071 01 42, my street address is Rua Raquel Roque Gameiro, 18-A R/C, please – I have nothing to hide

      • Here’s what I have for funding attempts:

        Last spring: GoFundMe campaign to build Digital Lisbon on Kitely.
        In July, relaunched the GoFundMe campaign as part of the move to the AviWorlds grid.
        Fall: IndieGoGo campaign

        That makes this the fourth attempt.

        The fact that you keep trying is actually the most newsworthy part of the entire project. Otherwise, the project boils down to, “I want to build something fun, give me money to do it.” Which is fine. Other people might enjoy seeing the project built as well, and can contribute to it.

        I have asked before about whether this project will benefit anyone in any other way, and the answer seems to be that people can rent land and hold events here. Well, people can do that on pretty much any grid already. I suggested before that to improve the odds of getting funding, that you find some other reason for this build’s existence. Some kind of good cause or charity that it will support, some forgotten aspect of history it will illustrate that is important for people to know about, Maybe there’s a class of students that can help build, which will engage them in OpenSim and help inspire them to pursue STEM. You know, some higher purpose.

        • Carlos Loff

          The difference is the size and the magnitude of resources available and the magnitude of the help I will give, for free, to anyone with a big project, for example, I can offer a free 256X256 region with 2K prims to any project that benefits the whole community, maybe Im not that good as I thought on convincing people, I can’t do better and Im tired of asking for people to believe me, I will stick to development and TIME WILL TELL – Thank you for helping spread the word

  • Good luck with your fundraiser, but I think you would get further by taking a commercial approach to making “stuff” by not asking for a $3000 upfront payment for something that may or may not materialize, but rather start selling some of the items you want to create and build a business that way.

    For the random visitor at gofundme it is very hard to understand what the project is all about. Virtually nobody out there has the faintest idea what OpenSim is.

    • Carlos Loff

      You are right when you say it is not presented for outsiders, it was done on purpose and was an intentional option for many well thought reasons – If Opensimers can’t seam to understand how 1$ can bring them so many benefits it would be much of a long long run at this time to try and bring outsiders to do it

      My strategy is very clear and well thought – All free in quantity, diversity and quality and only donations and sponsorships to bring in cash for future sustainability, it is the only model that will make me happy to wakeup everyday and get the project and communities going

      I don’t want to be just another Grid in Business so I will stick with this approach and see where it gets us all, maybe Im fully wring but that is life and that is entrepreneurship

      I thank you for your constructive criticism and very useful opinion & arguments, cheers

      • Did you ever apply for local EU funding as this is probably something you could get?

        • Carlos Loff

          It is a great idea, in Portugal there is too much bureaucracy but maybe straight to the sources it is possible, I just wonder how much independent I could remain on activities and projects being under that sort of funding

  • One of my readers just tried to donate, but got a message “the fund cannot be donated to at this time.”

    I went to the site as well, and found out that the minimum amount I can donate is $5, not $1.

  • Alex Ferraris

    I read all the posts here and I want to leave my opinion here.
    Carlos has been trying to get this project done for months now and he had many attempts that failed. Failed because he did not have the proper backing.
    Carlos finally found what he needed with Avi-Labs. I think the combination is superb and I must say to anyone who is thinking about donating; go ahead and do it. Do it because Carlos has the backing for a huge project and all powerful servers too. Located in EUROPE, CANADA and USA if needed.
    I say GOD SPEED to Carlos!

    • Carlos Loff

      Thank you and when people start using it will find out the performance as I feel it, even with quite a generous build and script load, although Im being very careful with that, but I hardly notice any effects and there are already a lot of interactive stuff

      • Da Hayward

        wow, The main issues we have found with VARs is not just the script load, but mainly corrupt scripts being bought in from other places and also the viewer keeping up with the size of them. Although I must say compared to SL mainland the VARS are a lot better. We really do wish you all the best with this project Carlos, its great to see enthusiasm and drive still around.

  • Susannah Avonside

    Intrigued, I went for a visit. First impressions weren’t too good, arriving at Lisbon Utopia was a classic experience of OpenSim Disorientation. I know the place is supposed to be a welcome area, but about the last thing about the place was a welcoming atmosphere. To be honest about it, I found it somewhat disorientating, and (this is not a unique criticism of the Lisbon project by far) on far too massive a scale. Why is it that welcome areas have to be so vast in scale? And often of quite disorientating dimensions? And why do they often have to be so space age futuristic in a ‘2001:A Space Oddysey’ way that is now so dated? The one word I can use to summarise the overwhelming feeling I get when arriving at places like this is that they are completely soulless. I was hoping to find plenty of information about the place, but there is a distinct lack of that. Where were displays relating to plans for the project, teleport stations to regions that have already been built. It’s a vast project indeed, but where are the areas that have already been completed so that people visiting can gain an insight into what the project is all about? Is it going to be a faithful recreation of the city of Lisbon, or a grid within a grid, yet another area where people can come and do their stuff? On that second point, people can already do just that, as I have done in the past, and as I am doing at present with my own Hypergrid enabled standalones. My projects are far smaller in scope, size and ambition, but one of the first things my projects have is a welcome arrival area that is scaled to avatar dimensions, (although I perhaps think that in projects the size of Virtual Lisbon, perhaps an arrival zone in the shape of a public square, or maybe Rossio Railway Station) and I’ve started to also provide a website to go along with my builds, so that people can get a little of the ‘back story’ (my projects so far are fictional places, so I have to create the history for them).

    If people have a clear idea of what a project is setting out to achieve, then it’s far more likely that they’ll understand and thus be far more inclined to support the project in many ways, including financially. Nothing at all is clear when arriving at Virtual Lisbon, and there is certainly no wow factor, just the impression that one has arrived at yet another pretty bog standard OpenSim build with utopian architecture and huge ambitions.

    Why not ditch the bland, disorientating utopian landing point where there is no information and create an arrival point at one of the iconic places in the historic city. Lisbon is a city I’ve never been to, but I know that is has a long history, ans still retains much of the architecture that was built when Portugal was one of the major world powers with an empire from which was derived fantastic wealth. Whatever the downsides were, ( which there must always be with any country that has posession of an empire) many great buildings were the result. So why the bland Utopia arrival point? Not a very good advertisement, and hardly one that would induce any but the truly faithful to contribute financially towards. Certainly I saw nothing on my brief visit to induce me to part with some of my hard earned, (which I regularly do with open source projects/software), which is a pity, as I think, properly done, OpenSim can be a great way of introducing places to people who would otherwise not be able to access those places.

    • Da Hayward

      Very good points Susannah, quite often welcome areas are over done to say the least with little or no information. Our own welcome area compared to the scale of DOR is very small and indeed it does not have a lot of information yet, but in saying that as we get the regions finished we will be putting in a landmark giver in for people. If i get time probably today. Carlos has taken on an immense challenge and I’m certain as time goes by he will address your concerns.

      • Susannah Avonside

        I think landmark givers are a good idea. I used to use blamgates on my regions, as I had a somewhat dispersed set of regions, some connected to OSGrid, one on the now defunct Speculoos grid and those running as standalones on home server. I don’t have that system in place at the moment as I’m no longer regularly running any regions on OSGrid and those regions running as home hosted standalones are not online as much as I would like these days, as I have priorities in RL.

        • Carlos Loff

          I have a problem on my grid and Avilabs is looking into it – Landmarks are not working, although map search and teleports are working great from HG

          Im a Geographer and also Im very pragmatic – What you see there is not even a fifth of what I will do for people to orientate on a proper manner, is one of the worst failures in most worlds I visit and I have that need much present on my mind

    • Carlos Loff

      Hi there, it is very important to have opinions like yours – The welcome area is an utopic futuristic area of Lisbon and it is not the city by itself – and is not finished at all, as you can see by the signs on the floor – construction cones, there is still a lot missing

      Although I have already been putting many signs and teleporters there is still a long way to go but your insights are really useful to avoid finishing it on the wrong way

      • Cinder Biscuits

        Wait, I thought this was a recreation of a city?

        • Carlos Loff

          If you read the campaign you will understand, but here we go – I m building an exact replica of Lisbon but that, as you can imagine, will take months and months,

          In the meantime Im paying for the whole grid hosting and want to start right away bringing people and projects so when the whole city is done the community is already strong and rolling

          On the 16 VARs I have therefore chosen 2 VARs that will not replicate Lisbon although they are in contact with it

          1 VAR is the mega 4X4 Sandbox, ready to roll with the specs I describe on the campaign and that VAR was used as a Sandbox because it is needed and useful on such a mega-scale for all folks of Opensim to test huge builds and vehicles with plenty of land and resources – In RL Lisbon has that corner empty geographically so it would be a VAR that would not get any part of Lisbon

          The Second VAR, already opened, is called Utopia, is the one where right now you see pictures and is the welcome area for the whole city and I have chosen a marginal area of RL Lisbon where half the VAR is also out of geographical Lisbon main structure – In this second VAR I created (almost done) an futuristic eco-sci-fi version of Lisbon to showcase what that part of Lisbon (mostly suburban and filled with warehouses) could be turned into – Im not eating away RL Lisbon

          It is a strategy for implementation – Since Im not stuck in there with realistic long time reproduction of reality, I can do it faster and more efficient and use it right away to support people coming in with projects, as also described in the campaign

          So we are left with 14 VARs that will have LISBON RL – REPLICA – You can go there and see the whole land mass and some streets and monuments already spread here and there – thiose 14 VARs of 4X4 each are the ones that wll see Lisbon RL replica come alive

          Cheers and thank you for your interest – This Press Release does not explain all of this but the campaign does it

          • 1derworld

            I think your best route would be start small what you can afford. Build it to perfection and complete it, Make it inviting to others. Then add more land when you complete fully what you have. Only then do a sorta crowd fund if you and your guests feel its worth a fund. Rather than rent this large project of regions which in fact is expensive. Never ever rent all the land you mention and expect it to be funded without showing and proving what you are capable of. Gives the feeling to others it will never be completed. Again start ONLY with a 4×4 and complete it fully and then only move forward. You will find its much easier on the wallet. I think no offence your eyes are bigger than your wallet.

          • Carlos Loff

            You are right, fully right and that must be the way, but when you think about Crowdfunding you know many wonderful projects get all needed funds and more even before they start, just by showing the idea, so like any other starter, I was trying that, so it all goes much much faster and smoother

            And I only ask 1 dollar of faith, don´t you think it is quite small the portion of faith you are required to give me ???

          • Da Hayward

            I agree in most cases. Starting small is often the safe bet but in some projects one does need to “think Big” and take a “punt”. a lot of projects do not get off the ground because of hesitation if Carlos’s venture flies or not only time will tell but it won’t if he dosen’t make the effort.keep up the great drive and ambition Carlos you can only fail if you give up.

          • 1derworld

            Suppose your right, Then again depends on the individual with the want and need. Like example I have built myself 2 of the largest airports in opensims. I started with 900 region var and noticed that the viewers yet are no where near ready for such size. Not to mention people do get tired of long flights of seeing nothing. That’s a real problem I have found of my many years in opensim that size doesn’t matter when you have done a great job with small.

          • Da Hayward

            Oh yes We had a 400 sim VAR the viewer couldn’t handle it so we went to linking 8 x 8 VARs people can fly about in one 8×8 (64 sim size) or if they want longer flights cross to the other regions. Sight seeing we have chosen to have islands on the VARs with plenty of water I think the largest runway is 1020m rest are all smaller islands with different themes.With airports it always comes down they can be over built we have taken this into account.
            But you are so right it depends on individual needs and wants. after all who is right or wrong we all have different needs.

          • Not only will the viewers fail to handle such big regions, but with any concurrency you will hit the ceiling of OpenSim very fast, and the setup will become very laggy. In addition, if you get issues on the simulator and need to restart, everything goes down rather than a tile of it. Startup times would be very bad too the more content that goes in there.

            For a project like this I’d go for maximum 4×4 VAR tiles and start small with very good content.

          • Cinder Biscuits

            One of the more pressing issues with large areas, not just regions is OpenSim lacks simulator object culling and “Interest lists” so every object in a scene is loaded into memory and rendered and remains on the heap until you disconnect from the simulator.

          • From a simulator performance standpoint it is probably better to be stupid about it and just load everything in the scene into memory, and let the viewer handle interest list and culling.

            In a low concurrency situation the server could of course assist with this, but when concurrency goes up the time spent on maintaining this is most likely significantly more costly than just shipping over everything within the viewers draw distance wholesale, and hope that caching and logic in the viewer will minimize the impact overall.

            We spoke about it the other day and there is no reason why the viewer could not handle all physics that does not involve object to object and avatar to object collisions that must not be transmitted to others. Avatar to avatar collisions must most likely be handled on the server.

            The biggest problem with Carlos’ design around a very large VAR is you’re laying all eggs in one basket, and that basket will have to be taken down for software updates and all the umpteen issues and crashes that develops in the simulator when it gets busy, or someone does something stupid like launching a sim crasher script. With a very large scene the startup time will be terrible. Further as more and more objects are added to the VAR you’d have to throw increasing amounts of memory at it driving up his cost. From experience a 32 GB or larger virtual or dedicated machine in a data center does not come cheap. In many cases you start to loose performance when too many processors are accessing the same large chunk of memory.

          • Cinder Biscuits

            “From a simulator performance standpoint it is probably better to be stupid about it and just load everything in the scene into memory, and let the viewer handle interest list and culling.”

            This is false, with mesh models, sounds, animations, and high resolution textures, this adds up to gigabytes of wasted bandwidth (for both you and them), bottlenecks, and can bog down a sim if the users have slow or latent connections. Bandwidth waste scales a lot worse than positional tracking.

            Bandwidth is also not unlimited in many places in the world. Realize that this is what the entire argument against net neutrality is based on, overly wasteful service providers.

            “In a low concurrency situation the server could of course assist with this, but when concurrency goes up the time spent on maintaining this is most likely significantly more costly than just shipping over everything within the viewers draw distance wholesale,”

            It’s not. Interest lists and object culling have very little impact server side. Halcyon has interest list support, and it’s beneficial to both the client and the simulator. looping over a list of agent positions is nothing compared to maintaining several thousand active tcp connections.

            “and hope that caching and logic in the viewer will minimize the impact overall.”

            If mobile devices are ever in the future, you do not want to be offloading more work onto the client side, especially stuff like physics processing. That will utterly destroy battery life with absolutely no benefit. “Caching” all objects on the heap is also very wasteful and client aggressive for client-server model.

          • First of all iOS games or applications doing physics is doing it on the device, and while it rightfully taxes battery life, it does not destroy it. iOS comes with Bullet Physics as you know…

            Secondly everything on the device that is in viewing distance must be uploaded to it lock stock and barrel for compositing and rendering, except the script byte code that is executing server side. So your argument on (wasted) bandwidth is and will be the issue for the foreseeable future. This makes it also very hard to make a mobile device that is not wi-fi connected as it will decimate most mobile plans in a matter of hours.

            These resources don’t, however, have to be loaded from the region simulator, but in small scale installations that is probably the most practical approach. For scalability you need distributed resource loading.

            The region simulator does not have to load textures in memory because it does not composite or render anything (avatar bake is the exception) and textures cannot be edited in-world. So the server only needs a reference to where the texture can be loaded from and hand it off to the client. Same goes for sound as the client is more capable of doing the sound mixing.

            The server needs to have all meshes (prims, sculpts, meshes, terrain) in memory and for a very large VAR the memory requirements will be significant. As long as the server handles physics calculations it will add to this requirement in addition to CPU requirements, and a large VAR will compound this as the frequency of movable objects and avatars increase.

            The server must of course also know where every moving entity is at any given moments within its boundaries, coordinate and communicate all changes in the scene including animations, maintain scene integrity and security, and execute scripts although that could probably be off-handed to the client too in a large number of cases.

            > compared to maintaining several thousand active tcp connections

            Well, all is relative. With the SL server setup they can barely maintain 100 client sessions for a simulator and the state of OpenSim is probably not much better unless you have a strong tail-wind, flat feet and good faith.

            I heard Ebbe expected to see a couple hundred such connections from every Sansar instance some time in the future…

          • Cinder Biscuits

            It’s apparent you don’t know how the system is designed, so it’s pointless discussing further.

          • I never claimed I knew how the system is designed (and frankly I don’t think anyone does.)

            What I am right about is that everything in a scene, except scripts are send down the line to the client. If it wasn’t a copybot viewer would not be possible to implement. You can also do a viewer cache clear and see what happens to your mobile quota till your regular scenes have loaded again.

            Some of what I discussed was potential changes ;-))

          • Cinder Biscuits

            Plenty of people understand the design. It’s all right there.

          • Carlos Loff

            NO MEGA-VAR – THAT IS NOT CORRECT – You should please read what I write, once again, or at least check the campaign link if you are going to discuss the project – HERE GOES

            – VL spawns over 256 standard regions, all laid side by side, for structural city continuity, all organized in a cluster of 16 VARs of 4X4each to assure more avatar load and better overall server performance at different land portions, relying on the latest Avilabs fine code, with almost no noticeable effects on Sim crossing for Avatars and even many vehicles, all running on dedicated servers using Ubode engine, witch is quite similar to Second Life and therefore also facilitating future migrants from SL

            – VL main goal is development by synergy, offering as many resources as possible, in quantity and quality, always 100% free and supporting all sorts of private projects giving them great autonomy to allow for a faster, steadier and pro-active community, attracting life and diversity from all over the Metaverse

          • Carlos Loff

            It is exactly what I have been doing for the last months – 4X4 tiles, I have explained it to you 3 times

            More than 4X4 are not stable so I prefere to ensure a good performance and avatar load distribution

          • OK, good, but your funding project says Continuous 256 Regions, which in OpenSim usually would mean a VAR of that size.

          • Carlos Loff

            No, my projects says much more than that – Continuous means they have continuity, they are side by side, and, just in case anyone confuses, continuous by being on the same VAR, as you did, you just need to keep on reading that same paragraph to read right away it is made with 4X4 VARs clustered, if you take the time to read you will see it very objectively explained

          • Da Hayward

            i cant speak for carlos’s project , but with DOR we use 8 x 8 VARs , and don’t really have any issues

          • Da Hayward

            We tried a 20 x 20 VArR wasn’t overly successful the 8x8s though do perform great though I guess you are right though if they are too full of objects you would have issues just like Single regions.I can see Carlos’s choice of 4×4’s as a good move as long as each region isn’t overloaded as can often be the case in “city” builds

          • City builds can be quite lean until people move into the buildings. Then it stacks up fast 🙂

          • Carlos Loff

            I can´t build a whole city if the whole land mass isn´t there, I have to build in a way I know how streets connect to each other and what goes where

      • Unless this is something else than a recreation of Lisbon, I would think that landing in a picturesque Lisbon town square with small cafes, shops and typical houses would be more representative?

  • 1derworld

    Be nice if every grid could do a crowd fund even the people who can actually build and offer something for the community. But I suppose
    if one doesn’t know any better they would contribute to a fund that runs multiple times a year with no results. Fishy

    • Carlos Loff

      Hi, I agree with you to a certain point but in my case you are forgetting something very importante – You can visit Lisbon now, just check the URL given, and find out that I have already done much much more than it was promised for the small level of fundings that were donated – When in a crowdfund you see a project going faster and further that the pledges, how can it be fishy in any way ?

  • Alex Ferraris

    As usual people are in a rush to put down work that is costing Mr. Loff money and time. His efforts are just ignored and thrown to the side. People are quick to judge but have no corrage to try the same. Mr. Loff has been trying to complete this project for months and now he has found a place that backs him and his efforts.
    His grid is in one server located in EUROPE. 1000 mbps upload speeds, powerful server backing his grid. Only his grid. NO SHARING here…NO VPS here.
    That is why some people that are not used to this kind of hosting think the same as the others who only experienced opensim in a VPS or shared low upload speed server.

  • Da Hayward

    i think that this whole discussion is getting off topic slightly, Carlos launched a campaign for some support, plenty of others have done so as well. There will always be difference of opinion and unfortunately these opinions can shine a poor light on the subject whether it was intended or not. I met Carlos when he had his project in the AviWorld grid, as i said earlier he strikes me as a stand up guy and we do wish him well with his project just as we wish everyone well with their projects in Open Sim.As far as viewers and VARs regions and everything else goes all these will improve as time goes on although I can not fault the VARS of the size we use. Best wishes for the project Carlos and best wishes to everyone else trying to provide great venues in open sim

  • heck, now hold on a minute thar! I I don’t look here for two days and I missed all the now deleted comment drama!! If anything can be said for all this, it is that at least you got people talking and reading, Carlos…if they old adage is true, this can only be a good thing for you, even if some small little bit, it’s all good-))

    eta: 100 comments to date, is this up there comment wise Maria? (rhetorical question)

  • Carlos Loff

    The Campaign is over, I got some funding, a third of what I asked for and anyway I will do much more than the funding allows, it will just take me quite longer but Lisbon does not stop and becomes bigger and better every day – Many thanks for all that helped and believed me, and many thanks for all the critics that were objective, argumentative and constructive – Visit anytime, use anytime, always 100% free – Paypal donation boxes are spread around for those who believe

    MAIN GRID – ROOT REGION – BUILD AND OPEN

    LOFF VIRTUAL WORLDS – GRID – VISIT & USE NOW
    >>> No need to register – Tuned for HG Visitors

    Grid Main Welcome Area – login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002
    – Only few details missing (info Panels e Fun Sports)

    A 4 Projects 100% Free Resources Hyper-Grid

    1 – Welcome Plaza – login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Lisbon Utopia
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    >>> Startup phase – Main structure and layouts prepped
    >>> Free office exchange buildings ready to be used
    >>> Free top Hotel being furnished
    >>> Selby Evans auditorium almost finished
    >>> Freebies Plaza under construction
    >>> Artists Plaza under construction
    >>> Free rental huge Clubs under construction
    >>> Free coral lagoon Bungalows almost finished

    2 – Mega 4X4 Sandbox – login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Lisbon Sandbox
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    >>> All Done – Ready for many uses – Allows 24h and 40k Prims
    >>> Specific building and vehicle testing spots + build grids
    >>> Huge continuous oceans and huge continuous road tracks

    3 – Space Life – login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Space Life
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    >>> Startup Phase – Terra Base, Planets, Moons and Colony Parcels

    4 – Mega Lisbon City – login.loffvirtualworlds.com:8002:Lisbon Baixa
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    – Startup phase – Main structure and layouts prepped

    Special Thanks to early donations from:
    – Selby Evans
    – Fred Beckhusen
    – Gwyneth Llewelyn
    – Sebastian Guła
    – Minetheree Athanasios
    – Josh Boam
    – Anonymous

    Special Thanks to recent donations from:
    – Selby Evans (once again)
    – Linda Kellie
    – Richard de Han

    Special Thanks for Tech Support
    – Avilabs – Alex Ferraris

  • Carlos Loff

    Excellent news – Virtual Lisbon will have 4 more VARs so it will be much closer to real avatar scale, 100% free and please guys – Comento on the project when it is up and running and not now that is on very early starts

    • Da Hayward

      great Stuff Carlos. You got to Pop into DOR sometime and have a fly about. I think these VARS are a pretty good bet