Genesis Grid launches own hosting company

Genesis-Logo Horizontal

Genesis Grid logo. (Image courtesy Genesis Grid.)

The Genesis Grid, formerly hosted by Avi-Labs, has left that hosting company in the wake of recent problems and launched its own OpenSim hosting service. It will be hosting its own grid, as well as that of another former Avi-Labs customer, Baller Nation.

The website is still under construction, founder Cliff Hopkins told Hypergrid Business. He is also known as “Dragon Genesis” in-world. Pricing and feature details are also still being worked out, he added.

Technical experience

Cliff Hopkins

Cliff Hopkins

According to Hopkins, Genesis Grid has been providing development services to Avi-Labs over the past couple of months, getting search and classifieds to work in OpenSim 0.9, upgrading the map, adding support for the llEmail scripting command, and developing a dashboard.

“For three months of work, this wasn’t a bad achievement,” Hopkins said.

In the future, the company also plans to work on PhysX physics support, which will be rolled out to a beta grid first for testing before being made available to customers.

“We are hoping that this will bring a whole new lease of life to OpenSim,” he said. The physics upgrade will be available to clients at no extra charge, he said, and will also be donated to the wider OpenSim community.

Hosting details

Genesis Grid’s hosting service will offer both full grids and mini-grids, with free search, classifieds, maps and in-world currency. There is a team of four people already working on the technology, with a plan to resolve support tickets within 48 hours. Planned downtime will be announced at least three days in advance, Hopkins added, with customers being able to decide whether they want to run OpenSim version 0.8 or version 0.9.

There will be daily backups of all grid assets, with offsite storage for the previous 14 days of backups.

Protection against distributed denial of service attacks, such as those that have been recently causing problems for the Great Canadian Grid, will also be included at no additional charge.

The company is still working on finalizing its prices, but it is considering a flat fee of $100 per server per month, with a one-time $25 setup fee.

Former Avi-Labs customers looking to switch over get a deal — no setup fee, and a discount on the first three months of hosting.

For more information, follow Genesis Grid on Facebook or Twitter.

What went wrong at Avi-Labs

There’s a lot of finger-pointing going around right now.

According to Hopkins, Avi-Labs owner Alexandro Pomposelli failed to pay the bills for the servers running his client grids, did not make backups of customer data, did not provide any warning that there were problems, and could not be reached for several days when grids started shutting down.

Not only have all Genesis Grid assets been lost, including all custom builds, but so were all Kitely deliveries, Hopkins added.

“I personally have lost $270 from Kitely shopping plus everything I created in Genesis,” he said. “I’m about $700 out of pocket because of him. My residents have also lost out and a lot are not returning.”

Pomposelli responded by saying that Genesis Grid has full access to their server — a claim that Hopkins disputes — and “are in fault of their own for not backing up.”

He added that Avi-Labs was providing the server to Genesis for free, in return for development work.

Alexsandro Pomposelli

Alexsandro Pomposelli

“Apparently you are believing their lies not me,” he said. “As usual I present the facts but you only believe other people.”

He added that he was only unreachable for two days, with both Josh Boam and developer Quill Littlefeather available for customers if they had any problems.

In addition, he insinuated that Genesis was at fault for the hacking problems as well.

“The attack originated from inside your server AV10,” he said in a comment, referring to the server that, according to him, was under Genesis Grid’s control.

“Genesis Hosting sabotaged AviWorlds and AviBrasil’s classifieds and search,” he added in a later comment. “They entered our servers and intentionally sabotaged what we had agreed before.”

It does seem to be the case that, at least before the current problems started, Genesis Grid did have server access. But it looks like each party expected the other to take care of the backups — and nobody did.

However, Pomposelli also has a history of ducking responsibility, blaming vendors and partners for problems, and has repeatedly shut down his grid, AviWorlds, with no notice, leaving residents in the lurch.

This latest round of name-calling is probably not going to endear Avi-Labs to potential customers. It’s bad enough to see your grid go down and to lose the good will of your residents — being accused of hacking on top of that is over the line. Besides, if a grid did want to go into the hosting business on its own, it’s a bad strategy to hack your hosting company while you are still hosting your grid with them, and an even worse strategy not to make any backups ahead of time.

“We’re not happy with them pointing the finger at us and blaming us for everything, even going as far as saying we hacked his bank,” said Hopkins.

Click for larger image. (Image courtesy Genesis Grid.)

Click for larger image.

Genesis Grid filed requests for refunds from PayPal, he added. “They found him in breach of his contact and have refunded me so for on a number of transactions, and seven more are still pending.”

According to Pomposelli, PayPal did not issue the refunds, but Genesis forwarded a screenshot showing that PayPal did, in fact, approve a refund.

Baller Nation makes the switch

One grid that was quick to make the jump from Avi-Labs to Genesis was Baller Nation.

“I have lost over $2,000 dealing with Avi-Labs,” said grid owner Monique Bartley, who is also known as Malani Baller in-world.

June party on Baller Nation Grid. (See all videos here.)

June party on Baller Nation Grid. (See videos here.)

The grid has been able to move its assets, she told Hypergrid Business, but there is a lot of work that remains to be done to get the grid up and running again.

“We are still going to have to rebuild sims, fix all the regions, and hope our residents come back,” she said. “I’m addition, I have yet to be refunded my server costs from a couple of weeks ago, and had to pay to turn on a server just to get all of my assets back. So let’s just say I am very disappointed in how we were handled.”

The Baller Nation website is currently under construction, but you can keep up with the grid via the owner’s Google Plus page.

“We will continue to push forward through this financial hardship and wish Avi-Labs the best in their future as a hosting company,” she said. “Our customers are hanging in there because they believe in us and we will not let them down. We will be back online soon. Thank you all.”

Lessons learned

First, make your own backups. Yes, its nice if your hosting company promises to take care of it for you. But backups fail. Yes, it’s a pain to make backups but figure out how to do it on a regular basis, then follow that plan religiously.

Second, test those backups. Once in a while, do a complete disaster recovery test. If everything goes wrong at once, will your grid survive?

Finally, be willing to spend a little extra for good service. For example, in the six years that Dreamland Metaverse has been around, I’ve seen one bad review of their services — and that was from Pomposelli himself, who has also had problems with every other major OpenSim hosting company.

Other companies that have been around for a while include CloudServe and TalentRaspel.

2015 Hosting survey scores

Dreamland Metaverse received the highest scores in our most recent hosting survey, with CloudServe a close second. Avi-Labs was not around at the time of the survey, which was conducted late last year, and no other hosting company got enough responses to be statistically meaningful.

Zetamex, which has been a recommended vendor in the past, had ownership and management changes in 2014 and hasn’t been the same since. In fact, the company has had a “coming soon” banner on their home page for over a year.

If you are starting an OpenSim hosting company, please email me at [email protected]. It’s not exactly a crowded field right now, and folks can use more choices.

Finally, if you have lost your avatar’s inventory due to technical issues, you might be able to get your Kitely purchases back.

Ilan Tochner

Ilan Tochner

“We have the means to automatically redeliver orders to an avatar on another grid but as purchases are for a specific avatar on a specific grid — see our TOS — we won’t do this type of redelivery without merchant consent,” Kitely CEO Ilan Tochner told Hypergrid Business.

Customers should contact their merchants and ask them to contact Kitely support and authorize the automatic redelivery to an avatar on another grid, or manually give the buyer a copy of the purchased items.

“As the item was already delivered to the avatar for which it was purchased, it’s up to the merchant to decide whether or not they wish to do this,” he added.

maria@hypergridbusiness.com'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China.

  • Karen Lee

    Eloquently stated Maria, many lessons was learned from this endeavor. My partner and I were green as grid owners, but due to the incompetency of Alex P and Avilabs we were educated very quickly as to what is expected from a hosting company. I have to agree with one thing. Alex repeatedly stated to me in regard to my avatar’s inventory. My inventory hasn’t fully loaded in months, as he stated yes we had access to the servers. So I looked and found an error on my avatar that was not on anyone else. He told me that was normal and my inventory had a corrupt item in it. I had to locate that and remove it and my inventory would load. So for months my virutual life sucked for the lack of being able to fully load. With the change of hosting companies my very first log in my inventory fully loaded in seconds(where as it took 30 mins to get an 1/4 of my inventory with Avilabs) So I concur with Alex, my inventory contained a corrupt item it was named AVILABS !!!! Thank you Genesis Tech Superb Job on correcting the thousands of errors in our files . And this is a truth there were thousands !!!!!

    • Genesis Grid

      Hi Karen,

      Im glad we managed to fix the issue for you, once you mentioned it our tech guy (known in world as Alec Genesis) went in to take a look and very quickly found the error in the database, was a quick 10 min fix lol 🙂

      • Karen Lee

        yayyyyyyyy tysm you made my year !!!!! 🙂

  • skylifegrid

    For your information all our servers including genesis are backed up hourly all genesis data is still there providing they will give us access to it to retrieve it but I am sure they know how to do this since I showed them how my automatic backup program works and that is one of the very first things to be put on the server. ALL SERVERS. So they are trying to make us look like the bad guys. All the other grids that requested the data was sent without hitches. Yours would be also if you provide us with access

    • Karen Lee

      what does this have to do with the errors showing on my avatar’s inventory? the error was backed up????

      • skylifegrid

        The many time we did tests on your inventory. It all was there. I was in grid with you resign my own itemsas well we had no issues that were at the surface. What did your Techs find that was hidden so deeply ? Maybe I’m feeling that only the key users on that grid you Kash all start having inventory issues around the same time but no one else does. This makes me think someone sabotaged you in order for you to leave hosting ? Only your accounts seem effected and this looks like targeted attack sneaky but good one. Anywho who knows who could have done it but that’s my theory

        • skylifegrid

          Business is cut throat in opensim right now people will do anything to steal a customer

          • I can not sit idle by and let this one slide, what exactly are you accusing genesis and my team of doing here josh?, i would be very careful there Josh Boam, that is very closer to being slander, and just proves the lengths and how low your willing to go to save face.

            Just to put the record straight here, had our server not gone down, we would have stayed with Avi-Labs and carried on developing things for Avi-Labs, i was even up until the day our server went poof Alex offer of joining Avi Labs on the hosting side of things and become Avi Labs – Genesis (as per both our websites showed). The ONLY reason Genesis has opened up is because of what happened and then all these accusations start to fly.

            People will make up their own minds, but what buggers belief, is why on earth would we hack your servers, while we are still with you, why on earth would we hurt ourselves in the process, our own hosting company was never even a thought in our heads until this happened. but time will tell whos actually telling the truth, Alex has already been disproved in many stories and lies with screen shots i have personally sent marina.

            As for you have all our files backed up, then send them to me, stop trying to hold them to ransom, you and Alex are saying 2 diffrent stories, you are saying you have them, Alex is saying you dont have any, so which is the real TRUTH if you have them stop messing around, stop trying to extortion money and give us our files you have my email so ill see if they actually turn up, or is this all yet more lies for our previous host….. which i actually think it is.

          • Karen Lee

            Honestly Josh if you establishment had provided the service promised, this discussion wouldn’t be happening. But I personally and thankful for this mishap. My partner will tell you I wanted out from under the umbrella of Avilabs 2 months after buying because the service was lousy. This is my feelings only. So chance after chance was given to provide quality service which we never received . But we did get cursed out in chat when questioning about why something wasn’t working , you do know what I’m talking about. I have all documentation backed up. So now I can add professionalism or lack there of to my list.

          • Alex Ferraris

            We provided always almost 24/7 customer service to you and to Baller Nation. Via facebook skype and phone .
            To say we did not provide it is not true.
            I find it very unease to read your words on here.
            We broke our asses day and night to fix all your mistakes and badly uploaded mesh and inventory. We fixed it and Josh would go without sleep many times .
            Anyway I do wish u luck and lets see if Genesis will give u full ACCESS to your servers and teach u like we did.
            And yes try calling them 24/7.

          • they have us on skype and were keeping them informed every step of the way, so far they are very happy with us.

          • no truer words have been spoken “Business is cut throat in opensim right now people will do anything to steal a customer” and some go to quite some lengths to keep that from being public….it has been going on for some years now though.

          • It’s “cut throat” for people who don’t know any better. There are millions of potential customers for OpenSim grids and hosting companies — from inside SL and beyond. No grid, and I mean, NO GRID or hosting company is doing a particularly good job of marketing today, many have websites and welcome areas that seem to be designed to actively discourage users. The few grids and hosting companies that have good reputations for customer service seem to be extremely, extremely conservative in their marketing efforts. And one has actually deliberately decided to limit growth.

            Trying to steal customers from other grids or hosting using negative methods is just one example of a bad, rotten, horrible marketing strategy. It makes enemies out of potential partners, hurts a company’s reputation, hurts its ability to attract and retain good staff and volunteers, and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Nobody wants to be associated with a mean, nasty outfit.

            My advice for OpenSim companies trying to grow is, first, stop shooting yourself in the foot. Second, figure out what you have to offer that makes you special and what community you are trying to serve. Then work hard to build your brand within that community, work on developing your strengths, and cooperate with other grids and hosting companies to get some major obstacles facing OpenSim handled so that there’s a future for the platform.

          • “It’s “cut throat” for people who don’t know any better.” more truer words have been spoken 😉

            And since it is happening then maybe one should wonder about those people who do it, and maybe those people should reconsider how foolish they are.

            But, alas, they won’t and it is a corruption that is doing lots of destruction to our little slice.

            I’m not so much referring to grid owners, tho some do this, but more to some of their followers who are just plain clueless.

            Heck, I used to do quite a bit of proselytizing myself, some of it worked out quite well…but then I had my epiphany and realized all the commercialism sucked and I found my hippie loving freedom!! ;-)))

            We don’t have this same kind of issue in the free Hyperverse…since there is no currency there is no need, the people who do such things are only getting their kicks where they think, wrongly of course, they are actually doing something for their grid “of the moment”.

            It is best to remember that while there is certainly some cool and interesting people involved with all this, the anonymity factor makes it relatively easy for those of, well, lowlife mentalities (that’s not the words I am trying for but I can’t get it in my head atm) to cause much drama relatively easily.

            They don’t realize, of course, that that mentality gives truth to my asseverations.

            If anything, that will cause the destruction of our beloved Meta and since many support those who do such things, thus enabling them, I doubt it will change.

          • lmpierce

            Great marketing does not guarantee great results; poor response to a product or service does not necessarily mean there was poor marketing. The world does not embrace every product and service at a mass market level of engagement… Time, experience and various assessments have shown that there clearly are not millions of potential customers for OpenSim. Nonetheless, it would be fantastic if the companies that offer these services would more universally promote themselves with professionalism for the dedicated participants who do find value in this paradigm.

          • I’m not saying it does. Great marketing does not guarantee great results, if what you’re selling is something that nobody wants. But bad marketing will definitely make bad results, much, much, more likely. I’m just saying, before pointing to external reasons for your problems — competition, etc… — look to yourself first. Are you offering something that people actually want? And are you letting them know about it? Are you treating your customers well?

            But just saying that nobody wants virtual land is not a valid reason — SL has plenty of people paying $300 a month, so there are people out there willing to pay substantial amounts of money for virtual land. I’d bet that there are a LOT more people willing to pay a little bit of money for virtual land. Most of these potential customers have no idea that OpenSim exists.

          • lmpierce

            Right, so when you write it that way, I agree. The issue I had with the initial proposition was the belief that there are millions of potential customers, and by implication, that somehow OpenSim is a mass market wonder, just waiting to be discovered. For so many reasons that has proven not to be true. Second Life still has some advantages over OpenSim, marketing issues aside. It has the compelling quality of being one very large interconnected world that does not require going ‘out and back in’ to get around, combined with a vast number of compelling destinations that have established themselves with an enduring worldwide audience. On the other hand, OpenSim feels more like the worlds for specialty purposes and groups. I bet great marketing would draw more people to OpenSim, especially as an alternative to Second Life. But that won’t change the (apparent) fact that most people who could access virtual worlds aren’t going to flock there because of a change in marketing. Most people have heard of Second Life and the paradigm saw its mass-appeal peak years ago, without any reason to expect OpenSim to turn that around.

            And maybe that’s okay. A lot of dedicated specialty groups could keep the technology viable for a long time with tremendous benefits to those users. Mass market adoption isn’t necessary or even desirable for all areas of human activity and interest.

          • There are, however, some doing their own part in getting SL people to “check out opensim”. The issue has some complexities involved.

            One is that the disinformation is rampant and those who favor one grid over anothers have no problem with helping that along.

            Another is the simple lack of people. Those in commercial spaces usually have more clubs than people to attend them, more malls than creators (and buyers) to fill them. This lends itself to sometimes vicious and negative competition..and that all leads to quite a bit of unnecessary drama.

            Another is people working against the common good.

            And another is a mentality that promotes a kinda bait and switch situation. Saying one’s grid is great and better than all others doesn’t really need to happen. Because the fact of the matter is when some SL person on the fence will easily find problems that are too much for them to participate in, and will just go back to SL.

            Of course this is, again, basically a commercial grid thing. Why people want to be involved in such intrinsically drama places is beyond my ken.

            I read the sluniverse forums sometimes…I do it as part of my social sites reading to try to keep some kind of thumb on happenings and feelings. An easy read there will find most of the SL only people there quite ambivalent about “opensim”. Generally an overall feeling of apathy to the whole idea of it.

            Part of the reason is that so many make drama about it there, especially some who are trying to actually promote their grid that is not SL, that people who are actually just wanting to spread the news get overwhelmed by the attenuating drama. I left there due to this.

            “But just saying that nobody wants virtual land is not a valid reason — SL has plenty of people paying $300 a month, so there are people out there willing to pay substantial amounts of money for virtual land. I’d bet that there are a LOT more people willing to pay a little bit of money for virtual land. Most of these potential customers have no idea that OpenSim exists.”

          • Thelma Marks

            I can not agree with you more you hit the nail right in the coffin.

          • This part “Of course this is, again, basically a commercial grid thing. Why people want to be involved in such intrinsically drama places is beyond my ken.”?

          • Thelma Marks

            In other news AviWorlds has announced they are now giving away free regions and also have closed grid hosting and are offering this in partnership with a soft drink company, a beer company and a bank? Are they still a commercialized grid? Read all about it on the new article HGB just posted.

          • i think its real funny that all this happens and hes sundenly got all these sponsorship, real suspicious here, well maybe josh boam will finally get paid for work lol but i find it all a fishy tale to try and get numbers in a grid no one really wants to be involved in.

        • Ok le me get this straight, we sabotaged their inventory and teleports, ok answer me this Josh, we had been given access by Alex 5 days prior to all this happening and your 2 biggest clients leaving avi labs, so in 5 days we caused all these errors, so wo caused the teleporting and inventory listing in the viewer for months prior to us having access to put search and classifieds on the ballernation grid, this can be backed up with screenshots of skype conversation with Alex on the exact day he gave us access to the baller nation servers to put it on for them.

          You couldnt even fix the home rezzing point using zetamax dashboard (which incidentally avilabs is breaking TOS for and license and re branded it to Avilabs and not Zetamax) after people signed up for a new account, we had to do it for you and then we had to do a manual on how to fix it and you couldnt even follow that, proof in skype and will give screen shots to marina if needs be.

          Same with the money server on Avibrasil, again i have screen shots of the conversation and will send them to marina, now forgive me if im wrong but thats your own code, yet you couldnt get it to work on avi brasil, you asked me to get my tech guy take a look at it and he fixed it.

          • Alex Ferraris

            Yes that is why we helped you out with TWO free servers and more if needed and all the services we gave you free with the servers plus all the info I supplied you and Alec regarding maps, money modules, email modules and more. I pointed where to go get all the stuff. I also helped you alot. And I wasnt available when all this mess happened but the data was available for you to get in AV10 server.
            Baller Nation was with us for almost 2 years. 1 server goes down and they leave…?
            Anyway I am tired…I wish you guys good luck. GODSPEED ok.

        • Karen Lee

          I never said the inventory wasn’t there, it was there it was just useless . I couldn’t rezz or use or wear 3/4 of my 50k inventory. Seeing and using is 2 different things JOSH !!!! oh I get it I’m so famous that everyone in open sim knows me and is out to get me. Just for the record, we didn’t know the Genesis Team until all hell broke loose within your organization (ie: servers going down, Avilabs website closing, and lack of the ability to contact YOUR company’s CEO. Now this is all facts !!!!!

      • Alex Ferraris

        Sorry Karen but that is now Genesis responsibility.
        Your avatar always had a history of having inventory problems and that is not avilabs fault.
        We gave u all your data exactly the way it was nothing less and nothing more.

        • not a issue anymore we fixed her inventory, it now fully rezzes. funny how josh accused up of hacking it and causing the fault with her inventory yet you just said it was always a issue, well its not a issue anymore as its FIXED and fully working

          • Alex Ferraris

            Yes we used to that also. It would fix it but then she would upload bad corrupted d items again and the issue would come back. Nothing new there. Just wait. The issue will come back.
            By the way …they had 4 or 5 servers that we gave them full acess.

          • the amount of servers is irrelevant, they have a few with us, shes been uploading and not had a issue at all, 🙂 im glad we got her sorted and fixed

          • Alex Ferraris

            Well maybe she can check the servers IP on each region to see if it really is many servers supporting their grid like we did. And we also gave them 1 opensim instance per region. Which takes alot more ram than subdviding an opensim instance into 10 regions.

          • Karen Lee

            lol your standard response CORRUPT how many have i proven you wrong Alex??? too many to count lmaooooooo

          • Karen Lee

            More lies ….. its sad your ship has SUNK !!!! give it up Do you believe your lies??? because no one else does so you don’t have to convince us . you know that old saying? “it’s better to be quiet and be thought a FOOL then open your mouth and remove all DOUBT” you should try this, just some friendly advice

          • Alex Ferraris

            I have proof that the server was hacked.

          • that you may have, but proove it was genesis, or my tech guys, could have come from another server into ours, who knows, but to accuse me in the previous post of hacking not only your paypal but your bank as well, then to accuse us of doing this to steal your customers, think about it alex and use that single brain cell you have left, why would i jeperdise a free server to hack you, where is the logic in that, we were your main developers we got that much working in 0.9 that neither of your tech guys could do, so why would we jeperdise that …. shesssssssss think on that for a min

        • Karen Lee

          You know Alex lying must be second nature with you. and to come on this forum and continue to spread lies is absolutely incredible. Number 1 it is false to say my avatar had continued inventory issues it wasn’t until someone in your organization stole a website set up. then you next employee screwed up all our assets trying to switch us back to diva that is when my inventory issues began. The entire grid was messed up.Now do you want me to have all our residents come in this forum and testify to the fact this happened???? It would only make matters worse for you.And yes it is Avilabs fault do you want to mention the web engine or I can post the letter that was sent to us threatening to sue us if we didn’t take that website down??? Really Alex you want me to go there we have proof !! as far as teaching us we asked because customer service sucked a big one. Regions going down on a whim then you neither Josh would respond. Meanwhile we are dealing with our residents trying to give reasons why its taking so long to get their regions back up. 24/7 customer service ?????? lmaoooooooooooo thanks for my laugh of the day !!!!

        • Karen Lee

          Broken mesh my $%^ you busted nothing you stole from us charging us for standard options that every other hosting company provides with no extra charge the mesh you mentioned uploaded everywhere but grids that Avilabs hosted so whats broken Alex????? huh? Keep it up and you know what’s coming you way next I keep documentation of every thing conversation charges everything !!!!

        • Karen Lee

          Admit Alex you have no idea what so ever how to host a grid !!!!!

          • Alex Ferraris

            Thank you Karen … I now see you true face. And I am not available anymore!!!

          • Karen Lee

            I figured yours out months ago I am not your friend Alex this is business ! and this face you refer is REAL !! HONEST !!! try it sometimes your businesses may succeed !

          • Alex Ferraris

            I ve always been honest and have given 100 % of my attention to your grid. Sometimes people need to know that not everything goes righ and you always were complaining and in fact you were the ONLY one complaining in the entire grid. After 1 year and 1/2 , 1 server goes down and you grab this as you chance to come after me with all your claws which is very natural to see it coming from you.
            You are just grabing this as your chance to crucify me and my partners because you were always unhappy and always had problems with your inventory.
            But it is what it is. You had your time here and that is an opportunity you were waiting for anxiously! You got it. But I do wish you and Baller Nation GOD SPEED.

          • Karen Lee

            Was I the only one complaining Alex NO that’s the first lie in this paragraph, #2 why was I complaining???? because you guys were always doing something to damage the grid. Every time we had a boost in residents you would do something in the background that would damage the grid and we would loose sim owners and residents. So if you are wondering why I complained that is why. Also you would do these changes with no notice and also on the busiest times of the week ie: Friday ,Saturday and Sunday ,the days when residents are most likely to log on. Which caused irreversible damage. So did I complain HELL YES I did !! would any other paying customer do the same of course they would. Alex you keep saying you are not going to say anything else , but every time I look at my email , you’ve said something else. Alex I am a VERBAL Assassin the difference between you and I is I speak the truth and will take action. And yes I was waiting the TRUTH about you needs to be told so there won’t be any other victims like all those affected in this occurrence and the ones previous to this !!!! Yet AGAIN Baller Nation has to rebuild its occupancy behind your lack of the ability to host this is the 4th TIME in 10 MONTHS. You need to take a GOOD LOOK at yourself Alex and see all the wrong doing you have done to people who trusted and believed in you !!! I f you need an assistance with that just look back in the archives of this forum !! Oh wait I forgot Maria is against you too… I don’t know what is wrong with everyone else but you, we are all wrong and you are ALWAYS right My bad! So come on Alex , you have given me so much ammo in the last 10 months I’m ready !!!! I wish you nothing !

          • Alex Ferraris

            Take care karen. God Speed to you.

          • Karen Lee

            lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo gotta have the last word lol

        • Karen Lee

          Alex I only have 3 words left to say to you “Better Business Bureau” good bye

    • Were not the ones withholding access, how can we with hold access from your own hosting company and your account with them, so where are our files that you claim to have, you and alex are giving 2 diffrent stories right now. you have my email so send me our files.

      People will make up their own minds on things and thats fine, we wouldnt have opened up genesis as a hosting company had our server been kept up we were happy with developing 0.9 for avilabs.

  • skylifegrid

    If the techs at genesis knew what they were doing Malani you wouldn’t have to rebuild anything. I sent them all the files. They could and can have your entire grid up in hours. It’s not hard when you know what your doing. I hope thighs will go well for you with genesis

  • skylifegrid

    I smell a conspiracy in the air… But who am I to say. We are all fish in the sea. Predators are out. Everyone needs to believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see. 2 sides to each story what one will you choose as true ? Life is mysterious and one must wonder if this is how things are meant to be 🙁 Everyone wants a piece of the pie. But it’s what their willing to do too get it !!!

    • Hanlon’s Razer: Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

      Lesson here: EVERYONE needs to make their OWN backups of all their critical data. And people need to have a backup plan for when a disaster strikes — How will you communicate with your customers and residents? How will you keep things going if key people are unavailable? Do you have an exit strategy in place if you need to switch vendors?

  • iidripdiamonds diamond

    Josh if all of them were backed up why are 25 residents with out data on there sims did you stop data transfer after you had me pay you for the server fee even tho I was already charged. if it was backed up like you said then we would have all asssets you promised all assets and you lied. to me and my partner Karen lee we did not receive all assets.

  • iidripdiamonds diamond

    I paid an additional cost to one of there down servers to save my baller citizens assets and avilabs lied again but its ok we gonna move forward and rise.

  • iidripdiamonds diamond

    As far as what the techs are doing there repairing your error code Josh. Why can we teleport now? why does our inventory load now?everything that you and alex said was in our head or the firestorm viewr is working now so before you try to come on here showing face for the public please don’t. Classifieds,Search Email Messaging never worked yet I was billed.Oh but now it does so what your saying is they don’t know how to clean up your sloppy mess.Genesis actually lets us have acess so we can actually see the damamge you have done to us something you two had hidden from us in the past. So like I said we will move on we aren’t stupid any longer this is a lesson learned hope you enjoyed eating good and spending innocent peoples money for 10 months gravy train stops now.

  • Carlos Loff

    Witch engine will Genesis bet upon ???

    • Weve no idea lol, were going to experiment on a beta grid with diffrent options to see what the options are befor offering them to our clients for free upgrades to their grids Were going to offer 0.9 and 0.8 version of opensim as everyone has their own preference,

      • Carlos Loff

        Nowadays is very difficult also for customers to decide in witch engine to invest tim and building – I spent several days perfecting some easy setup elevators that work great on Ubode and are very easy to setup and customize, but now I changed that land to Digiworldz and they just do not work – So since you are going to bet in business side make sure you think before offering this or that engine, cheers and good luck

        • Thelma Marks

          What are the different physic engines for opensim?

          • Carlos Loff

            I m not a techy and other folks may give you a better picture but from my experience i believe there are 3 main ones – UBode (most similar to SL), than you have ODE (more classic and steady) and Bullet (more experimental but great for vehicles) – and most grids also change the Opencodes and give them their own tweaks, like Kitely for example but many others – This is just a resumed idea from user point of view – Personaly sometimes I feel a bit lost because despite being good to have opencodes to be improved, it also makes me wonder on witch grid/engine should I bet more time and money – Stuff scripted for one engine may not work with another engine, even a simple sliding door

          • obode as of right is only in Opensim 0.9 which is still a dev build. 0.9 also has Bulletsim and ODE for physics which those are the only 2 options in 0.8. if you are fine with possible instability of dev code at times then run 0.9. We run Mobius on Opensim 0.9 grid wide and are pretty happy with it so far. But if you run your own grid and are not too tech savy run opensim 0.8.x I recommend talk with your host if you have one about it. Mobius Grid is hosted by Zetamex and they been very helpful.

          • Carlos Loff

            Nice advices, thanks you also

          • no prob Carlos.

    • ok so on our main grid were running 0.8.2 version of opensim and bullet with a few tweeks, we will be adding in more tweeks and developments to that, were also playing with Physx on a hidden beta grid to see how that goes 🙂

  • lmpierce

    Just a reminder… A heated discussion attempting to unravel arcane details is fine, but direct accusations and malicious derision will be removed.

  • iidripdiamonds diamond

    No heated discussion just facts but I’m done now have a good one

  • Thelma Marks

    After reading this article and seeing the last and also finding the rest on HGB about this AviWorlds company or AviLabs I am still confused. I do not know why anyone would go in business with such a shady name. From what I read in one of the articles they lost their .com name. This leave many questions in my head. Why would someone else even have access to a company .com name? Another question in my head is maybe I am wrong in assuming this but from what I am reading they give their customers direct access to their servers and if this is indeed true and they are claiming that this other company or customer sabotaged them. Why would a company give access to customers of their own servers and also other customer related servers, and if it was as bad as it sounds they put other customers data in danger. I’m still trying to wrap this all in my head but from what I have seen this is really bad. Again I am just going on the facts of what has been posted on articles here in HGB. I am pretty new to this scene and am always looking out for this type of stuff because I bring so many people over from the big grid to the opensim community and this really scares people away. If everything I have been reading thats been posted article wise on HGB is true this is really not good and people should avoid this company like the plague.

    • Thelma — Alex Pomposelli is a nice guy in person — we’ve had him on InWorld Review:

      http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/10/inworld-review-conference-update-and-breedables-news/

      And he seems to have a VERY devoted following who stick with him despite multiple grid failures and outages. I seriously cannot explain why — there are a lot of nice grid owners in OpenSim without any such history of problems.

      The story with the domain name is a typical example. He convinced a guy named Mike Hart to join up with him. Mike Hart does an auto racing grid, and has a lot of nice builds and good technical skills. But he was never able to attract a lot of users to his worlds. Mostly — and this is just my guess — because he focused on creating content, rather than on building a community. So, on paper, it seemed a nice fit — Mike Hart’s tech skillz and Alex Pomposelli’s charismatic appeal to his residents. Then Alex decided to walk away from the whole thing — as he’s repeatedly done in the past — and handed everything over to Mike. The grid, the content, the servers, the domain name, everything. Then Alex decided to change his mind and take everything back. Mike, understandably, was extremely annoyed about the whole thing.

      Read more about it here: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2015/04/aviworlds-vs-aviworlds-battle-rages/

      The positive lesson out of all of this is that ANYBODY can start their own grid. Anybody. You can start your own grid in OpenSim if you’d like to. Just get some friends together, pick a hosting company with a good track record, and make sure that you have PLENTY OF BACKUPS. If you have good backups, then moving hosting companies is relatively straightforward. In fact, the better hosting companies will take care of the move for you, getting in touch with your former hosting provider and taking care of migrating all the files and regions and servers, then just throwing the switch and redirecting folks from the old grid to the new grid. (Switching is more difficult, though, if you use a vendor’s proprietary grid management services and unique features that only they offer. But that’s the case with any technology platform.)

      The other lesson here is of how not to handle a disaster. Other grids have had technical issues. DigiWorldz and Great Canadian Grid, for example, recently had to deal with DDOS attacks. They communicated well, were polite, improved their platforms, and are still very happily in business. Kitely has done a stellar job with customer service and communications since day one. Dreamland Metaverse has an exemplary track record of grid and region hosting.

      The great thing about OpenSim is the choices you have. Instead of having one vendor, like with Linden Lab and Second Life, and no recourse if you don’t like the way things are run, OpenSim offers a wide range of options and services — at all ends of the spectrum, both good and bad.

      • Thelma Marks

        Thanks for the info Maria. This all sounds like one big mess, it raises a lot of questions in my head. I honestly do not know what I would do if I was involved. Wishing both parties the best in resolving this. Hope everyone learned from this.

    • Karen Lee

      Maria it’s easy unfortunately, speaking for myself I didn’t have any knowledge of Alex’s history. All the info you are hearing now and past info we found out afterwards. Then it was pray for the best because we were knee deep in. We listened to a bunch of shallow promises and weak excuses every time something went wrong. So honestly this was a blessing it expedited getting from out under his umbrella of poor service and expertise.

  • skylifegrid

    We have just got off the phone with the data center they have given us FTP access to Genesis effected server , Genesis has been given the Connection details and if now fully capable of recovering their data. We are under the understanding we are being accused of withholding his data. This is Untrue until now we have been trying to work out with the data center on getting the server back to us since they have been vacuuming up all the malicious requests and have put the server in rescue mode. It is now up to Them since they had full access in the first place to recover the data.

    • Candi Collins

      Are you for real? ROFLMAO

      • skylifegrid

        ?

        • Candi Collins

          You shove that foot in your mouth any further Josh and you’ll be watching it come out the other end………….lmao

  • Alex Ferraris

    Paypal paid genesis two transactions and did not take the money from me due to the uniqueness of the matter. Genesis is telling paypal a lie saying we did not provide the service and another thing. What they are claiming is something they cancecelled months ago.
    I gave all of it including their servers for free . Genesis is acting dishonestly and is lying here and lying to paypal. I can surely show and I will when I can all the print outs of paypal saying they were in favor of avilabs. The two they paid genesis back they did not charge my paypal.

    Anyway I have sent Maria proof that the server is online and has been and that Genesis could have gotten the data off of it if they backed up.
    To me this is all a big lie and once again against me and yeah to put avilabs down and start their own hosting.
    But it is okay. I wish them luck and hopefully they can learn how to back up their data.
    Av10 was managed by genesis grid and only them. How many times I have to say this here?
    All avilabs servers at least the ones we managed were backed up hourly.
    Josh and Quill both have done an excellent work and I am proud of them.

    • Candi Collins

      Not yet they didn’t charge your PayPal……………..the money was returned to us, it WILL be debited from your account. Calling us the liars to save face Alex, wow. Keep telling yourself and everyone else what you all have been, maybe someday someone will believe you. Fact is, you and your minions have tried to extort money in exchange for assets that YOU NOR AVILABS owned. It wasn’t until you were threatened with a lawsuit that you finally returned SOME of the assets due to Genesis. You will get what you rightfully deserve in the end so i’m done with this load of BS that you two are spitting out.

  • This is all good and well, but the real issue nobody has brought up is that why in that Baller nation photo do those people have such weird thighs?????

    • iidripdiamonds diamond

      lolllllllllllllllllllllll u are petty!!!!! lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

    • Karen Lee

      its called curvy not stick figures

      • ah, I stand corrected then-)))

        • Karen Lee

          🙂

        • iidripdiamonds diamond

          I am just tryna figure out how what our residents thighs had anything to do with the topic up here but oh well loll what Baller Nation Residents look like isn’t the issue but any way I am back to reading 🙂

  • Alex Ferraris

    Here is the bottom line.

    The server was paid and it is not due until the 28th of this month. AV10 server.
    As per our agreement with GENESIS we would not go into their server. We gave them TWO free servers.
    Genesis was responsible to manage their server including BACK UPS which is natural. It was not AviLabs responsibility to back that server up since it was 100 managed by GENESIS.
    GENESIS has been supplied with the LOGIN info again to try to get their DATA if they had backed it up.

    All this nonsense that the servers were not paid is not correct. I have proof the server was paid.
    I did not accuse GENESIS of hacking my personal life info and financials.
    I did not accuse GENESIS of hacking their own server.

    All this is very unfortunate and I wish it could have been resolved in a more friendly manner since I was away and couldnt be reached in time.
    I wish GENESIS good luck and GOD SPEED and I do think this should all be put to bed and lets move on.

    Alex Ferraris.

  • Quill Littlefeather

    The other issue is this. Genesis is a thief you have stolen proprietary files form the avilabs servers., mainly the marketplace system, while the css code was initially borrowed all the back-end code and connectors were made by and for avilabs. same with the instant delivery module. <<<>>>
    And yes i can track the use of my modules as i have a call home built in. ALSO consider this a dcma on any modules developed by me.

    • do you have proof to back up this allegation quill of avilabs? no you dont, i will now be taking this further with our laywers, you might want to find one yourself as youll need one for the outright accusation.

  • Quill Littlefeather

    I dont need to show proof of anything i have your htdocs folder from xampp. my modules and marketplace stuff has call home in it so go ahead and try to use it and see what happens.

    • i truly hope you have a good laywer quill as your insinuating that ive got your marketplace that incidently looks very simalr to Linden Labs inc marketplace, so thats the main reason i didnt develop it nor want it, we are working with another scripter on a marketplace and this will be rolled out free of charge to our grid users once its ready for release, ive just come back from my lawyers and under his guidance and recomendation im not responding anymore, they will be in contact in due course. we have also issued a DMCA take down notice to the avilabs host as developments were done by genesis under a agreement of service, as we no longer have this service avilabs is in breach of that agreement and a DMCA has been sent to soyoustart to take down all avilabs hosted grid (sorry carlos but this has to be done, after being accused of outright theft without any proof im taking things to the full extent of the law)

      • skylifegrid

        My friend you have nothing to say and do and who the F do you think you are ? Carlos and his grid are 100% fine and Your Crap job of updates are easy removed You have no grounds to stand on and Let this go to court and we all can see who you really are!

        • skylifegrid

          all I can say is Your the one digging the grave my friend You were caught in the act and now are trying to turn the tables …. Get your dogs and lawyers and who ever you think is necessary we have all our documentation and so does soyoustart we also have callbacks in the stuff we have on our servers soo you best comb though all the stuff you have very carefully because we will find out your using it… You did nothing for aviworlds and or avilabs all the setups and configurations were done by me the website is opensource from github and the only thing you did was edit a few command lines … We owe you nothing we gave you your content … your just trying to bully us now with all this threats …. Do your best because were not going anyplace and our customers we have we love … If they decide to leave .. I hope to high hell its not because of your Tales!

  • Quill Littlefeather

    and if you want me to make the proof public i have all you database backup files and hmm my marketplace db are there my tasker db is in there and if you want t ill post it all online for everyone to see. it also has all your passwords in it so …

    • Please do post it and break the data protection act 1994 just more amunition to cripple avilabs and just shows the levels your willing to go to, this is really putting avilabs in a great light for other people to see

  • Quill Littlefeather

    and one last thing our data center has a drive image of that server its large but ill post that publicly too.

    • again please do, shows how you protect your clients data and are willing to break the data protection act 1994, this should raise warning flags to any grids that avilabs are hosting that are left. wouldnt suprise me now if they all leave and run for the hills since your threatening to post our data, so how secure is other peoples 😛 well done you just digging the avilabs grave even deeper and making it really hard for them to come back from this.

  • skylifegrid

    Apparently we found quills marketplace and other files and databases on the server we allowed you access too. Now quill is stating this is his work and you are not allowed to use it you have taken this files and databases without our consent and would like you to not use them, Still trying to figure out how you got the databases that were on quills personal server. That has different login credentials

    • again i ask for proof that this was us, quill could have done this himself, but im sure soyoustart and OVH have a record of the connecting ip that put them there, ill be sure our lawyer asks for that info as well 🙂 ty unless you have solid proof you might want to stop digging a hole for yourself and avilabs, as all this in a public forum is liable and slander, and i will be taking things further to the full extent of the law, see im going to legal path now, your still spirting lies and make belive stories 😀 im not a push over nor will i back down with empty threats.

  • skylifegrid

    so how did you obtain a copy of our r marketplace and why was it edited to suit your grid ?

    • we didnt take your crappy marketplace nor did we edit it to our grid as we have our own developer working on our own using jomila, this is obviously more lies on behalf of avilabs in a attempt to make us look like thieves which is complete and utter trash, again this comment has been screenshot and forwarded to our lawyers 🙂 keep it up josh cause your just giving the lawsuit against you more ammunition and making our case stronger, weve already had a email from so you start with a text document of all files name that was on the server, so try another one, its funny how you get stuff done when taking things legal 🙂 and get all the information you need 😀

      keep up the great work and lies josh they are working wonders for our liable, slander, loss of earnings and deformation of character case against you personally, hope you and your hubby have some serious money youll need it 😀

  • lmpierce

    Time to rein it in: flame wars violate the Discussion Guidelines and will be deleted.

  • Alex Ferraris

    Its time to stop talking about what happened in the past because since then AviWorlds has been online for almost 2 years now. This story is old and I am getting sick and tired to see this same old story that AviWorlds had shut downs…Most grids and I mean the big ones have had shut downs constantly!
    I am not going to accept this anymore. Everytime Maria has a chance she writes I have a history of shutting down AviWorlds without notice and bla bla bla…But she doesnt write that I have explained myself many times that the shut downs were not all due to my own fault and I consider them STEPS to what AviWorlds is now.
    She doesnt write to say that I havent given up and I tried and I tried and I tried until I GOT IT.

  • Alex Ferraris

    I have been a good investor for the opensim community and I will announce here now.
    AviWorlds will be offering FREE 15000 prim regions for all.
    AviBrasil has already given out 100 regions free all 15000 prims free..forever!
    All the big talk in here is that him or her cares more than me so lets show the fish in your net now

    • Thelma Marks

      That’s a really kind and awesome offer. Is it a sustainable business plan? Anything free always worries me because its kinda like getting free wifi internet but if everyone is using it at once it goes slow.

      • Alex Ferraris

        One thing I have to say. PUBLIC TV. SOAP OPERA = REGIONS. SPONSORS. 🙂

    • ill keep quiet on this but say i think its a desperate plea and desperate attempt to try and save face, how can you offer free regions and not bring anything back in, that means you’ll be over loading the servers with regions and make them really laggy for users, but good luck and all the best, hopefully it works for you.

      • Thelma Marks

        I don’t trust anything “FREE”.

        • Alex Ferraris

          ok then you should never watch free TV channels. Public television etc and etc….so many….

          • Thelma Marks

            There is a big difference my public tv does not turn off.

    • skylifegrid

      If you are true about this free regions for all Im going to have to take my talent someplace else because I will NOT be the one dealing with all the setups and issues that will come with this.. what you offer is too much for our small team to deal with… not to mention the servers needed to run them all.. Please rethink your FREE region deal because I really do not want to be apart of that.. I am here to earn some money after all this is business.

      • ooo the world of aviworlds, avibrasil and avilabs falling apart huh 😛

    • Cinder Biscuits

      Where’s the sign up for free regions? I got to the website and click Land Rental and it just goes back to the home page. :O My imagination is HUNGRY, Alex. I need to FEED IT. GODSPEED

      • Karen Lee

        tread lightly

  • Quill Littlefeather

    oh since you want to play this little game you are hereby required to remove my picture from your website. you are forbidden to use any digital likeness of me or any graphical depiction or representation of me in anyway without my consent which you do not have. you have 24hrs to comply.

    • Dragon Heart

      im sorry but that is given to skype freely, skype has its own TOS and copyright quill, want to play games i do things legal, you uploaded the image to skype and allowed skype to share it legally, sorry but you will have to take it up with them since you auterised skype to use your picture with your consent, so image stays 🙂 (yes ive also contacted skype to see if they had permission and it appears they do by you uploading your image)

      have a nice day

  • “developing a dashboard” uh more like modifing MY old opensim dashboard. Ya i looked at the html and theres some code there that i know i wrote.

    • Dragon Heart

      well shows how little you actually know doesnt it chris, you have zero clue whats actually happening in the back ground do you, or what ive got in development and due to be swapped out, seams money goes a long way 😀

      • yeeea i have no idea aboot anything eh. im just a dumb stupid canadian eh.

        • Dragon Heart

          nuff said, but you dont have any idea what im working on, what any of my team are working on unless you have a way to pear into peoples screens no you really have no clue whats going on away from the grid 😀