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116 Comments

  1. dragon.heart1975@yahoo.com'

    Genesis Grid will be back up and running fully tomorrow, weve had to change the connection ip to allow for kitley deliveries 🙂 ill also revamp our stats page to make it easier, and do the same sort of thing GCG does, hope it helps.

  2. netinterprizes@yahoo.com'

    Thanks Maria for the article.
    I want to make a public announcement here so everyone is aware.
    Effective immediately JOSH BOAM and QUILL LITTLEFEATHER are no longer part of AviLabs.
    I am not going to go into details how and why I made this decision.

  4. fredafrostbite@gmail.com'

    I have a question which has probably been answered before. Why is Inworldz included in these numbers? It is not an open grid, but a closed one.

    1. 1derful61@gmail.com'

      Yea, Inworldz if a whole different thing compared to opensims they contribute nothing being they don’t use our software. Just like SL Don’t

      1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

        Several reasons, which I have addressed before (and probably will again!):

        1. InWorldz is a public grid. Anyone can go and make an account. We list ALL public grids we can find. There are fewer and fewer public closed grids out there, but they are still out there, and many of today’s most popular grids started out as closed grids, such as Kitely and 3rd Rock Grid.

        2. Yes, InWorldz has branched off from OpenSim. But most large grids are running customized version of OpenSim to one degree or another. And InWorldz has contributed to the development community. Read more here: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2015/05/inworlds-reveals-community-support-efforts/

        3. InWorldz is currently the best entry point from Second Life to OpenSim. It is one of the only two grids that routinely brings in around 2,000 new users a month — the other is Kitely. (See chart below.) Commercial grids have a vested interest in attracting new customers, and the successful ones work hard at it. That makes InWorldz and Kitely the two “most valuable players” in OpenSim. And InWorldz is popular with OpenSim users. According to our survey last fall, 67 percent of our readers had visited InWorldz, putting it ahead of OSgrid at 63 percent and Great Canadian Grid at 46 percent.

        4. InWorldz users go on to explore other grids. On average, according to our survey, each InWorldz resident has been to four other grids. About half have been to OSgrid, and nearly as many to Kitely and the Great Canadian Grid. (I’ve added the chart below.) In fact, since InWorldz continues to attract new registrations, but active user numbers have been gradually drifting down, I would argue that InWorldz has become a stepping stone into OpenSim. It’s hard to figure out how to set up your viewer to access OpenSim grids, and to create an account. Once you’ve done that once, it becomes easy to do it again. People who come to InWorldz first then have an easier time exploring the rest of OpenSim, where they might find different types of communities, different features, and a variety of land prices. They might even go on to create their own grids.

        5. I might disagree with their business model but I do have to admit that it’s been working for them, that my predictions of doom have not come true, and that the grid brings a lot of benefits to the broader OpenSim community.

        1. fredafrostbite@gmail.com'

          I see your logic, but, using that same logic, shouldn’t SL be included? I mean anyone can join sl too. How does it differ from IW? (Realizing this is probably another question you have asked before.)

          I am interested because I am actually a little offended to see a closed grid mentioned in conjunction with opensim. I don’t’ care what version of OS a grid is using. If it is open to HG, that counts as “open” in my book. IW and SL (and some others) are not “open.” They have chosen to keep their gates closed to the wandering masses. I am not saying that is a bad thing. There are several good reasons one might choose to make one’s virtual life on a closed grid. But closed is closed, not “open.”

          1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            SL doesn’t run on a version of OpenSim, so I’m not including it in my numbers.

            But there are several closed grids running on OpenSim, though the number of shrinking rapidly. For example, 3rd Rock Grid was a popular closed grid for a long time before it turned on hypergrid last year. And some grids turn hypergrid on and off on what seems to be a weekly basis, like AviWorlds. (Okay, I’m exaggerating here — by my last count, they’ve changed their minds about hypergrid five times.)

            And Kitely used to be a closed grid as well. Avination is still a closed grid, though it’s down right now as part of its server move. At one point, they had over 2,500 active users, have donated a lot to the OpenSim community, and their owner is a core developer and recently help OSgrid recover from a couple of outages.

            I do like grids that are on the hypergrid, and rarely feature events that happen on closed grids. And the Hyperica website, of course, is all about hypergrid destinations.

            But there are some excellent reasons for why a particular OpenSim grid might want to be closed to the hypergrid. For example, it might serve members of a prosecuted minority group, and be concerned about privacy and security. Or it might be a role-playing grid with a lot of proprietary content that wants all players to have avatars created specifically for that game and want to keep out outside content. Or it might be an educational grid, and everyone who logs in has to be either a member of that educational community, or go through a vetting process, so make sure that the kids are safe. Or it might be a company grid that wants to limit access to its own employees, partners and customers.

          2. 1derful61@gmail.com'

            SL doesn’t run on a version of OpenSim, so I’m not including it in my numbers

            True either does Inworldz, But ok

          3. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            InWorldz runs on a version of OpenSim that was branched off. They also contribute to the OpenSim community.

            Many commercial grids customize OpenSim to a larger or lesser extent. Kitely, for example, has added an entire cloud-based on-demand layer. The OpenSim project allows these kinds of customizations, and, in fact, the BSD license was specifically selected to allow anyone to create branches of OpenSim and keep them private, in order to spur the use of OpenSim for business.

          4. fredafrostbite@gmail.com'

            Okay here’s a question that will clearly out me as a tech idiot. Is Sl run on software/hardware significantly different from IW or OS? I really do not know and have always assumed SL *could* open the gates to HG if it wanted to. Am I wrong about that? I know Sensar won’t be at all compatible with anything else, but is that already true of SL? (She asks, thinking always of the 1000s and 1000s woth of inventory she has in SL and no longer uses.)

          5. lmpierce@alcancemas.com'

            Second Life is written with different code, but it runs on the same machines as OpenSim and has the same user functionality in most regards. So much so that the same basic viewer can be used for Second Life and OpenSim. In recent years, Second Life did add Havoc physics, which is not supported for OpenSim because there is a licensing fee – this has caused a branch in the viewers that can be used.

            Yes, Second Life could support hypergrid functionality, and years ago IBM did a successful test of this with Linden Lab. However, Linden Lab did not want to pursue this potential. There has been endless debate in these forums about open versus closed worlds, so even within the OpenSim ‘universe’ there are open and closed grids, and many associate any closed grid with the Second Life approach to virtual worlds.

            As for your Second Life inventory, it is locked up in Second Life, unless you built meshes that you uploaded – In that case, your meshes can be used in OpenSim as well.

          6. fredafrostbite@gmail.com'

            Thanks for the answer. That clears up a number of things.

          7. You say SecondLife is running on the same (Machines) as…. $30 SoYouStart servers as mentioned by Avi-Labs. I would have to think SecondLife has been running on much more professional server clusters than many of the opensim grids are using today.

          8. lmpierce@alcancemas.com'

            Hi Frank… My comment is a generalization about the technology, not the actual quality of specific implementations. Freda wanted to know if SL runs on hardware ‘significantly’ different than OS, and to that question my answer, as a generalization, is no. However, you are correct that Linden Lab is undoubtedly using decent hardware to ensure a certain level of performance and reliability, whereas the open nature of OpenSim allows people to run on whatever quality of machine they can get up and running. In fact, as we all know, OpenSim hosts compete in part over this issue of server quality and reliability.

            And I should add that since Second Life is one large world of thousands of regions, it does require a networking of computers not required for an OpenSim installation, so that aspect of running Second Life is different. Having said that, years ago Second Life offered an enterprise package that would allow entities to run their own private Second Life, although that has been long discontinued.

          9. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            Second Life VIEWERS are running on the same machines as OpenSim viewers and have mostly the same functionality.

            The back-end servers are a totally different story — there is a wide variety of the hardware that is used, both between Second Life and OpenSim, and between different OpenSim grids and hosting companies.

          10. lmpierce@alcancemas.com'

            Yes, but Freda asked if Second Life hardware is significantly different from InWorldz or OpenSim, and to that question the answer, as a generalization, is no. I did comment to Frank, however, that because SL is one large grid of thousands of regions, the servers must be networked in a way that OpenSim does not require. But that is a difference of implementation, not core processing hardware. I believe Freda was wanting to understand if there was a hardware reason why OpenSim and Second Life cannot hypergrid with each other, and we know that there is not some intractable hardware reason, but rather business-related reasons Linden Labs has eschewed such interconnectivity.

          11. netinterprizes@yahoo.com'

            Sorry Frank but AviLabs was running with much more expensive servers. OVH or SOYOUSTART they are excellent servers and are professional servers. The fact that they were cheaper is not a reason to say they werent professional servers. They are UN MANAGED servers meaning you have to install the OS server and also manage it. That cuts down the cost.

          12. My point Alex was about secondlife not using that level of hardware, and you did post ping test from soyoustart last week.

          13. skylifegrid@gmail.com'

            they were 56 usd servers not 30 and they do have power! well only when people that know how to use them that is lol

          14. LOL Yes I stand corrected. Look me up if you want to work on some projects together. Your choice to help alex is nothing less than honorable, and Im sure you did the best you could for him with limited resources.

          15. chrisx84@live.ca'

            Also providing poor power also helps cut down the cost. Use to be with ovh and the node I was on always lost power

          16. chrisx84@live.ca'

            They are using Amazon servers. Proof is in some of the url’s they use for things like displaying profile pics on a webpage

          17. jim@gridmail.org'

            I just want to clarify that the IBM teleport tests, as far as I know, was not Hypergrid (at all). It was called “Open Grid Protocol (OGP)” and was a different thing entirely. So my point is to clarify that Linden Lab cannot just turn on Hypergrid in SL, even with some work to update the old code.

            That was work that the combined SL/IBM team did as part of the Architecture Working Group back in 2008.

            Here’s the old press release.

          18. jim@gridmail.org'

            I just want to clarify that the IBM teleport tests, as far as I know, was not Hypergrid (at all). (I know you aren’t saying that, only that it is related.) It was called “Open Grid Protocol (OGP)” and was a different thing entirely. So my point is to clarify that Linden Lab cannot just turn on Hypergrid in SL, even with some work to update the old code.

            That was work that the combined SL/IBM team did as part of the Architecture Working Group back in 2008.

            Here’s the old press release.

          19. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            Ahh — common mistake. Since the viewers for OpenSim and Second Life are the same, many people assume that the backends are, as well.

            That is not the case.The Second Life and OpenSim server software were developed completely independently of one another and have different architectures, and — I believe — using different programming languages. OpenSim is written in C#, and runs on Windows. (Or on Linux, via an emulator.) Second Life runs on C++ on Linux.

            The Second Life server software is proprietary, and nobody ever sees it except the Linden Lab developers.

            The OpenSim server software is open source, and anyone can look at it and contribute to it.

          20. jim@gridmail.org'

            The software side was answered nicely by Maria (although OpenSim “emulated” on Linux is not how I would describe OpenSim code running on MONO, but it’s also not too far off since it is Windows DLLs). The server hosting side of things though is quite different between SL, InWorldz and other grids, in terms of professional hosting. SL has thousands of enterprise-class managed servers and they are presumably spending hundreds of thousands (or more likely millions) of dollars each month through an enterprise contract for managed hosting.

            InWorldz is similar to SL, but scaled down considerably from SL in terms of having only hundreds of machines, professionally hosted through an enterprise contract with Rackspace (a top-tier server provider), costing tens of thousands of dollars each month in hosting costs. InWorldz has many common/shared servers as well, such as more than a dozen machines providing assets or user inventory, via an Apache Cassandra cluster (the same storage Facebook uses for scalability) and Rackspace’s Cloud Files for asset storage.

            Most OpenSim grids have a few servers on less expensive (but still professional) hosting companies like OVH. This leaves them more susceptible to things like operating system vulnerabilities, especially if they are managing the machines themselves, but this reduces costs and allows cheaper regions, etc. and is appropriate when starting out or providing basic grid services for a smaller number of active users. The smaller activity numbers make that reasonable for most OpenSim grids, and in fact InWorldz started out with a similar server provider before it grew enough to need the more enterprise-class hosting contract with Rackspace a few years ago.

            Overall it’s the same hardware environment for all grids including SL, server boxes, but there is quite a varied set of offerings and packages of service, support and performance depending on what the hosting provider offers and the grid negotiates. There are several levels of “professional” here, and unmanaged vs managed server hosts are probably the first rung on the ladder that goes all the way to SL’s enterprise servers. That said, I think LL has been trying to cut costs and stacking the regions higher, so in some ways the InWorldz hosting may be exceeding that of SL’s, just with much smaller server counts.

          21. chrisx84@live.ca'

            So doesn’t use plans in because loans in is a reverse engineered off of the second life viewer protocols.

      2. butch.arnold@digiworldz.com'

        Inworldz has contributed much to the opensim community. David chimes in on several things here and there on both the server (OpenSim) and the viewers. Additionally, They have released all of their code to anyone who wants to grab a copy.

    2. trrlynn73@gmail.com'

      I would like to give my take on the matter now that others have given theirs.

      I agree with your basic premise, that “It is not an open grid, but a closed one.” and I, as have others in the past asked the same thing…as Maria says, “Several reasons, which I have addressed before (and probably will again!)”

      I think some people are looking at the issue a bit incorrectly, or even more of a “wishful” thinking approach.

      Maria, of course wishes to use whatever she can that is easily disseminated to the readers. It is a more easily digested type of marketing approach. People find it easy to point to an individual grid, whether rightly or wrongly, than to “sell” people on the value of understanding that the hypergridded Metaverse should be seen collectively.

      The hypergrid connected aspect of this is more like a neighborhood in reality, people are free to choose who they want to visit, what they want to see, what they wish to be involved in.

      In fact it is people who are first time hypergrid users who give me the most enjoyment…they ALWAYS find it very fun to do.

      There is no single grid that can give us more to see and do than we can do by hypergridding…it’s inherent in a closed system that it is the owner’s vision, not the users, which drive those grids.

      Trying to be all too everyone is an impossible dream…but the hyperverse is certainly the system whereby it can be more realized.

      Personally I think Maria should direct people to hypergrid enabled places…it doesn’t matter whom or it could be a list. Because people can always find others to help them along in one way or another.

      By any standard of the numbers game, hypergrid connected places have much more to give, as a whole, that a single closed grid.

      The same arguments Maria gives to suggest Inworldz as a place to go, can all be used, and more effectively, by embracing hypergrid connected places.

      But as she has often said, It’s her place here and if others feel differently they can go do their own blog (or somesuch similar wording…please feel free to correct me if you wish to Maria).

      Since I am one who does do my own blog I also understand that Maria gets tons more readers than my little space does…I am not interested in any case, but that’s neither here or there.

      1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

        I do direct people to other places. When folks ask me where to create their first avatar, I send them to OSgrid. I would like to see InWorldz join the hypergrid, but I understand that there are practical and technical reasons why they can’t. For now, at least. I’m actually more confused about why Avination hasn’t become hypergrid-enabled. They were one of the lead developers of the new hypergrid-friendly export permissions, and worked with viewer developers to get it supported. Other commercial grids have already used content filtering and turned on hypergrid connectivity (Kitely, 3rd Rock, etc…) so it surprises me very much that Avination hasn’t.

        1. trrlynn73@gmail.com'

          Yea, I don’t really understand what motivates Melanie…there seems to be some logic missing.

          Yes, well, I am the first one to say, and mean it emphatically, I think Inworldz should continue just as they are, for whatever reasons they say.

          The rest of us are doing just fine.

          Interestingly I and some others just had a nice g+ conversation with Doug Maxwell…it got dramatized in the end but the guts of it was very enlightening, to me and I think to Talla.

          https://plus.google.com/106115943375300299121/posts/Tu46igyttGM

          in case you or others wish to read it….and maybe even comment-))

        2. jim@gridmail.org'

          Melanie explained this some time ago (I’ll paste the link below), but my interpretation is that it is essentially the same reason InWorldz isn’t HG-enabled. HyperGrid isn’t secure enough for commercial grids. Grids must choose between content protection, or not (HG). It is a “web of trust” and any grid that is open to HyperGrid is trusting every region owner on the HG. If any HG-enabled grid allows users to hook up their own regions (e.g. OSGrid), it means any content that travels the HG might as well be full-rights.

          So grids must really choose between supporting commercial creators or going with the “everything is free and full-rights” approaches. Neither is “correct”, or “best”. It depends on the situation. Educational or government groups like schools or MOSES might much rather ignore permissions entirely and only allow full sharing of content without restriction. So they could definitely support and benefit from HyperGrid. However, in doing so that effectively kills the economy of the grid. It means the commercial creators from SL and other commercial grids, if they understand the situation, should never try to sell their items on a HG-enabled grid.

          Now the concept of filtering content on exit from a grid does resolve this, and the Avination/Singularity concept of the Export permission did resolve that, but it seems that was only implemented on the InWorldz grid. No other grid supports the Export permission (as far as I know, not even Avination). (Kitely has something named that, but it’s really more an option on their listing, not a permissions attribute. It has a similar name but it is a different topic.)

          For export/filtering, the devil is in the detail. First, all content must default to export-disabled, requiring the creator to explicitly indicate that they want their content exportable to other grids, otherwise simply providing it to another user gives them a permanently exportable copy to other grids. And filtering (e.g. by creator ID) is effectively the same, someone could take it with them to another grid before the creator is marked export-disabled, but again like defaulting to export-disabled, I’d only support creator filtering if it is white-listed only. If by default, all content/creators are exportable, then we have a problem where creators can see full-rights copies of their content showing up on other grids.

          Melanie (one of the creators of HG) summarized it in a post here. I believe this is regarding enhancing HyperGrid to actually be secure enough for content, in a secure HG 2.0 (that never happened). She said:
          “I do promote the secure Hypergrid; Avination is not a walled garden by choice. However, to keep the work of our creators safe, we can’t, with the curent state of HG security, safely enable hypergridding in Avination. Rest assured that, once it can be done without inviting wholesale permission exploits, it will come to Avination.”

          1. ilan@kitely.com'

            Regarding Kitely’s Export permission. You are correct that Kitely doesn’t use the export permission system that Avination developed but you are incorrect in implying that our system is just a license indicator in our marketplace. The Export control system Kitely created controls content exportability from our grid, it isn’t just a licensing indicator. Items that are listed as No-Export in Kitely Market are filtered out of OAR files and prevented from being taken out of Kitely via the Hypergrid. In fact our system enables us to take various actions that the Avination export permission system doesn’t support, such as automatically removing exportability from all copies of items (whether rezzed or in people’s inventories) when the PayPal transaction that paid for them is disputed by the buyer.

          2. jim@gridmail.org'

            Yes, agreed. My comment was really just trying to say the Export option on the Kitely market was not related to the Export permission described in the Singularity/Avination article; it’s a very different and independent thing.

            So I think we are in agreement there. If there was any implication, what I was trying to say was that (my understanding is that) the Kitely option is a filtering technique to prevent the item from leaving the grid / being delivered on other grids, only, not an attribute of the item. Inventory items and rezzed objects have permissions; I don’t think this option on the Kitely market has an effect on the OpenSim permissions attributes, but please correct me if it is actually tied to the actual OpenSim permissions (object/inventory attributes) and travels with the item to other grids. (I just wanted to head off any replies that said “Kitely implemented Export permissions too”, because that wouldn’t have been true.)

          3. ilan@kitely.com'

            You are correct in stating that the Kitely export control system has nothing to do with the OpenSim permissions attributes. We implemented our export controls using a completely different method, one which allows us a lot more flexibility in making quick changes to item’s exportability system-wide.

          4. 1derful61@gmail.com'

            Is really a Export permission of any kind important? If one is so inclined they can pop over to ANY grid and copy the whole place. I’m sure some people would like to think something is secure, But in reality that’s not the case. Export permission or not there is no safe haven. May as well turn things back to a Free Metaverse.

          5. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            You’re right that if hackers can log into grid, open or closed, they can grab copies of the content. However, they are not able to get scripts, animations, or mesh rigging information.

            As a result, I am currently recommending that creators who work in these areas, and for whom the scripts or animations are proprietary and key features of their products, that they either sell this content on closed grids, or on grids that allows them to set their content to “no export.”

            In general, however, I personally prefer that creators use licenses rather than digital rights management tools to protect their content. DRM tends to hurt usability and make life inconvenient for users. Legitimate, paying customers suffer — while the crooks can get the content, anyway.

            For example, I might want to move my entire music collection from my old phone to my new phone. Or I might want to move my avatar’s inventory from an old grid that’s closing down to my new grid. Heavy-handed DRM policies might prohibit me from doing either of these things, making me buy all-new copies of all this content. That creates unhappy customers and, more importantly creates an atmosphere where the customer feels that its okay to use pirated content.

            I much prefer content that is either licensed for personal use (where i can use it on all my avatars, whereever they are) or for enterprise use (where an organization can use it on all its grids, and distribute it to all its employees or students) or for commercial use (where the customer can modify it and resell it).

          6. sugar.paolino@islandoasis.biz'

            In Island Oasis we do not use the “Export” feature. We put the power of perms in the hands of the creator. If an item is made in island oasis by a local account they have the option to make it any perms they want. If they make it NO TRANS then that asset (item) will not leave Island Oasis. If you are wearing something that is NO TRANS the system will not let you tp off island oasis until you remove it. The name will still show the item in your inventory but the asset information to retrieve that item is not there until you return to Island Oasis. And YES…. there is no grid that is 100% safe from copybotters. We put this system in place for your everyday hypergrid users. If someone wants to steal your content no matter what grid you are on they will find a way. As a grid owner we try our best to reduce that risk.

          7. hanheld@yahoo.com'

            “I much prefer content that is either licensed for personal use (where i
            can use it on all my avatars, whereever they are) or for enterprise use
            (where an organization can use it on all its grids, and distribute it to
            all its employees or students) or for commercial use (where the
            customer can modify it and resell it).”
            We need a GPL for metaverse content, where items are explicitly given with the permission to modify and to redistribute (even commercially). Between the folks that think they’re going to be the next Anshe Chung and our general hysteria around *zomg socialism* I don’t see that happening?

          8. jim@gridmail.org'

            @1derworld:disqus The purpose of the Export perm is not so much a DRM protection mechanism (although like all perms it does provide an explicit intention of what a proper viewer should allow). The main purpose is mostly the exact opposite of protection: it allows the creator (copyright holder) to explicitly grant a user permission to use something off-grid.

            So it’s mostly to allow creators to distinguish between something they sell to other builders (like full-perm texture packs or sculpties or meshes or even animations) to indicate that the next owner is explicitly permitted to take the content off-grid. It is also ideal for HyperGrid travel, providing a mechanism for creators holders to grant explicit permission for a new owner to take content with them when they travel.

            See, the problem is that the SL permissions model is a bit weak on *enabling* creators to indicate *more* permission than full-perm (on *this* grid). This Export permission provides explicit permission for the content to be used even more than full-perm does. Note that Export can *only* be applied to full-perm items.

          9. 1derful61@gmail.com'

            Well if you think the Export perms do work with HGers it doesn’t. And yes it works great with residents.

          10. jim@gridmail.org'

            Well, I don’t think Export perms work with HG because it’s not going to be effective on the grids that haven’t implemented it yet, which is most (if not all) of the HG-enabled grids.

            If it was supported on an HG-enabled grid, it would allow creators to indicate their items could travel with the avatar to other HG-enabled grids, and that’s really useful for HG.

            Without it, there’s either no explicit OK from the creator, or it has to be faked by stealing one of the other permissions: e.g. some grids have grabbed Transfer perm and just declared that it no longer means Transfer, it now means Transfer+Export. But that causes those grids to lose support for one of the standard permissions, Transfer, instead using it to represent Export, a much stronger perm. They are different, and it is really a grid deciding to extend/assume that use by multiple users means use on other grids too. So the ability for creators to use Transfer on that grid is discarded, not to mention that Transfer no longer acts like the standard Transfer permission, which may not even be known to the creator.

            So providing an actual Export permission is very useful for any grid where you might want to take content with you off-grid, which is obviously very useful for HG travelers. Unfortunately, the Avination/Singularity press release was vaporware on the server side, and only Halcyon grids and YRGrid (which has Halcyon
            permissions) have support for the Export permission. It’s a shame for HG grids, since it’s a way for creators to specifically say in the permissions code checks that the inventory item can leave the grid when
            an avatar leaves the grid.

          11. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

            I’m not following your logic. Do you mean that if a creator marks their content as exportable on an HG-enabled grid, and someone takes that content to another grid, then all the other permission settings become, in effect, moot because different grids might treat them differently?

            That is true, but creators who are worried about that can simply set their content as NOT exportable, so that it stays on its home grid, and doesn’t leave. Whether other grids have implemented the same export permissions system or not is irrelevant.

            For example, Kitely’s permission system is unique to Kitely. Creators that allow their content to be exported understand that they are giving up control over that content once it leaves the Kitely grid. They might charge extra for that content to compensate, or they might decide that the increase in customers more than makes up for the increased risk. (And, in fact, almost all of the growth on the Kitely Market recently has been in exportable content so creators are, in fact, seeing that benefit.)

            In particular, I think most creators understand that crooks are just going to copybot content — they’re not going to go and actually pay for it, first. Restricting exports just hurts legitimate customers, without hurting the crooks (except for the cases of proprietary scripts, animations, and mesh rigging). Plus, giving people a convenient, easy way to buy legitimate content at a reasonable price does more to eliminate piracy than pretty much every other measure put together. (Just look at the success of iTunes and Netflix.)

          12. jim@gridmail.org'

            @Maria Korolov Your first two paragraphs, yes. Once an item leaves a grid, the implementation on the originating grid become moot and replaced by the permissions on the second grid. In many cases, that’s close enough so there’s no need to worry. The really troublesome case is grids that allow externally-managed regions to connect. Those grids effectively have no permissions anymore, since anyone with their own region on those grids can just set something full-perm at will, or take a copy, or take ownership of anything on their region. But the main point isn’t that, it was your second paragraph.

            Creators worried about that can choose to make their items exportable or not. Yes. That’s a beautiful thing. That can allow them to provide content on the first grid without worry about it leaving the grid. However, it requires the ability to flag something as exportable, which is why I like the Export permission. It was a great idea, and that’s why we implemented it in Halcyon. I’m just a bit disappointed that OpenSim has not (except for YRGrid who merged in the Halcyon permissions code into their custom version).

            And it’s why the Kitely permissions flag on marketplace listings works and is a good idea: it’s the same result, filtering what leaves the grid to only include content the creator has deemed exportable. (I only have one beef with that: last I heard, the default was to assume everything listed on the market is exportable; you need to opt out. Still true? I don’t think that would be a safe assumption without an explicit enabling by the creator, although perhaps the default for new listings is no-export, I just don’t know the details there, or the current status.) But I don’t think that export option there is related to the OpenSim permissions system, so referring to it as the Kitely “permissions system” may be a bit off. I think their permissions system is still the standard OpenSim mod/copy/trans, but that the market has additional delivery filtering which provides protection similar to Export permission.

            I think your last two paragraphs may be jumping to a conclusion based on a false assumption. Do those creators even realize their products are exportable? When that option was implemented, was the default to assume export-enabled for the whole existing marketplace catalog? Do new items default to exportable, or is that something sellers need to check? If either of those is that the listing assumes export by default, then many of those exportable items might be unintentional.

            On the (third-party) InWorldz marketplace, if support for any other grids is made available, it will be a separate option that will need to be enabled. In fact, it might be a whitelist of destination grids, because as I pointed out above, even reasonably secure permissions require that there are no user-managed regions, so delivery to those grids like OSGrid that allow home hookups would prevent most concerned creators from listing commercial products for export at all if they can’t rule out those grids. Even though they are HG-enabled, YRGrid prevents connections to those grids, for example. They effectively have no grid-provided security at all for content, just DMCA protection. Which for some people is enough, but not everyone. A lot of creators really need a strong permissions system or they won’t sell content at all.

          13. ilan@kitely.com'

            The Kitely permission system is based on the OpenSim one but we also use various proprietary systems and extensions for content export control. One of these extensions, which we contributed to OpenSim years ago, prevents objects, which weren’t acquired from Kitely Market, from leaving our grid if the owner of those objects doesn’t have Copy and Transfer permissions for them ( https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2011/08/28/copy-world-respects-permissions/ ). Another system, which is Kitely-specific, creates export reports when people create an OAR backup of their Kitely world ( https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2013/06/12/export-permission-implemented/ ).

            The Export control system that manages items that were acquired from Kitely Market works based on the EXPLICIT Export permissions the merchant specified for the item. This has always been the case: we announced how our system will work before we opened it to merchants ( https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2013/01/20/kitely-market-early-bird-promotion/ ), we added the Export setting to our marketplace ( https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2013/06/12/export-permission-implemented/ ) and only then did we open the market for business ( https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2013/08/ ). We NEVER enabled the Export permission on people’s marketplace listings without them explicitly doing so themselves..

          14. jim@gridmail.org'

            Thanks for that update and clarification (and links). Whatever info I heard before (I thought it was from you but I think clearly not) was incorrect, based on your answer and the description in the links (which is very good, very clear): “Merchants can choose whether their items can be used only in Kitely, or in other OpenSim grids as well. They do so by setting the Export Permission on their products. Products where the Export permission is disabled (this is the default) can’t be taken out of the Kitely grid.” So that covers the marketplace option nicely.

            It’s a little fuzzy about whether something without the marketplace export option can be taken out of the grid; it seems like you’re saying not only can non-marketplace items (without the marketplace Export option) be exported, but there is no creator or even full-perms test for that; that Copy/Trans (no-mod) items can be taken off-grid. Or was that just a historical thing, part of how the Kitely Export option evolved? I guess a simple question: if I sell something (today) in-world to another user with next-owner permissions set to copy/trans/no-mod, can that user then take that item to OSGrid?

          15. ilan@kitely.com'

            There are two system in play:

            The first system handles any item that was bought in Kitely Market. That item will be exportable (or not) based on the explicit Export permission that this item was purchased with. You can read more about this system here: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2013/06/12/export-permission-implemented/

            The second system (which is indeed much older) manages all objects that were not purchased from Kitely Market. Those objects will be exportable only if their owner has Copy+Transfer permissions for them. You can read more about this system here: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-news/2011/08/28/copy-world-respects-permissions/

          16. jim@gridmail.org'

            Okay, thanks for that answer. But that second part is not good news. It not only means that items on the Kitely grid do not include an explicit export permission to leave the grid, but also that neither of the traditional compromises of either verifying creator (SL export requirement) or verifying at least full-perms (traditional OpenSim export requirement) are required there. And because of that, it weakens the marketplace option, assuming the marketplace delivers to Kitely grid, since a no-export item is easily exportable from the grid side, even if it’s no-export and no-mod on the marketplace. If I interpreted that correctly, it’s something you might want to consider tightening the rules on.

            I understand that there’s no widespread acceptance of the Singularity Export viewer implementation, and there are still loopholes, but in the absence of that, at least one of the traditional schemes should be used to encourage permissions to be preserved/enforced. Just my opinion, but I’m really holding back on the language here because it’s your grid and your customers and I know changes are not always easy. But geesh… the lack of perms enforcement on exit from the grid would seem to me to make all that other export work moot.

          17. ilan@kitely.com'

            You misunderstood. Any item that originated from Ktiely Market, regardless of how many times it was rezzed, copied inworld, taken to inventory, transferred, etc. will have its exportability determined based on the explicit Export permission the item was bought with from Kitely Market, regardless of what C/M/T permissions it has. This means that Kitely Market merchants can sell exportable items that aren’t full perm if they wish and even full perm items bought from Kitely Market aren’t exportable unless the merchant sold them as such.

            The Copy+Transfer implicit export permission only applies to items that did not originate from Kitely Market.

          18. jim@gridmail.org'

            Okay thanks, that’s good news. I guess that also means that there is a solution there for in-grid transfers that aren’t intended for export… they could be made safe by distributing them via the Kitely marketplace rather than normal owner transfer or vendor boxes, so that’s an option to secure those to the grid as well.

          19. hanheld@yahoo.com'

            >May as well turn things back to a Free Metaverse.
            Now you’re just being silly… 😉

          20. 1derful61@gmail.com'

            You would be surprised how many really wish things went back to the good old days. Once the seed of greed was planted the “Take Copys” and Buy for 0 has left us. I for one know this, I get out often 🙂

          21. cinder.roxley@phoenixviewer.com'

            YrGrid has had server side export for almost a year now since it utilizes the halcyon permission system. It is also hypergrid enabled.

          22. jim@gridmail.org'

            That’s a very good point. InWorldz is no longer unique in its support for the Export permission; although YRGrid is running the OpenSim software, it’s a branch that has the Halcyon permissions system merged in, so it has the Export permission support too. Also any grid running the full Halcyon software will support it (such as MOSES, GospelWorld, any others). So creators on those grids can actually explicitly mark their full-perm content for export, or not.

  5. skylifegrid@gmail.com'

    Congratulations baller nation for making top 10

    1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

      thank you josh for the genuine support and the help that you have given us in this past year i wish nothing but the best in your future business god bless

    2. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      Thank you Josh 🙂

  6. donnaleexx1985@gmail.com'

    That’s a pretty good trick. How does Baller Nation with a registered user count of 845 have an active user count of 931?

    1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

      That actually happens quite a bit, when your grid is connected to the hypergrid. In fact, on Hyperica, my own grid, there are only a couple of registered users — everyone else teleports in from other grids.

      But I’m getting a variety of different stats for Baller right now, possibly due to all the server and hosting problems they’ve been having, and am trying to get more accurate numbers for them.

      1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

        thank you donna lee for bringing popularity to baller i apreciate you yayyyyyy…… my dashboard is so nice im glad all can see

        2. donnaleexx1985@gmail.com'

          I wouldn’t be too proud of it, the information makes no sense. But if that’s how you also operate your grid, then at least it shows people if you can’t keep an accurate stats page, how well are you managing your grid?

      2. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

        thanks maria

      3. donnaleexx1985@gmail.com'

        Don’t you think the time to get accurate numbers is prior to putting them on the top ten list, not after you have already posted wrong information?

        1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

          I didn’t know they were inaccurate until after I had posted them — I pulled them from the usual stats page. And I’m still waiting for the corrected numbers.

    2. hartofchicago@gmail.com'

      Food for thought:

      “Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.”

      Or to phrase it differently:

      “it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.”

      This whole trilogy of hateful and pointless comments have done nothing more than prove the fools in the whole story.

      I leave you with this:

      When the politicians complain, as they have in several countries, that television turns their proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that television has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained.

      While not television, it still applies. The only thing that has occurred is that what was already not right, was brought to light by investigative journalism. Maria reports the facts, she checks sources, and presents a relevant story. Just because you don’t like how you look, doesn’t mean the news has done you a disservice. It’s something you should have known and fixed before it was put on display. That’s your fault, not anyone else’s.

  7. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

    thanks alex your making us famous love the support god bless you and all you do

  8. donnaleexx1985@gmail.com'

    You are right Alex. Seems you can put any number on a stat accurate or not and have it show up on HG Buisiness. Nothing like getting famous by lying about your stats Baller Nation, congratulations for showing everyone you’re dishonest.

    1. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

      Yes, companies can lie to their customers, to the public, to the media. But it’s not usually a sound long-term strategy. Reality usually catches up with folks. With stats, in particular, there’s usually someone around to point out if they don’t sound right. Usually, the problem is a technology error. When it seems to be deliberate, I stop using the stats that have ongoing problems. (I have several grids in my database where I don’t pull particular numbers because they’re consistently wrong.)

      1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

        exactly maria and clearly its not deliberate because it wasnt when alex was hosting us its only now that we have moved on that him and his little freinds want to asume baller is being dishonest but at the end of the day were happy and moving on if alex in his new found freinds want to keep attacking baller that’s there time and energy so congrats to you as well Donna Lee and have a lovely and blessed day 🙂

    2. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

      and next time please post all grids listed in the top ten with their numbers and not just single Baller Nation out because you have a personal issue I would like to add that upon your posting that we are faking our numbers we have gotten 4 new members again so as I said earlier Donna Lee who I have never heard of thank you so much for making Baller the highlight in your life and ours may we appreciate you. And Alex you have to the 25th lets focus on that and you know what I mean get to counting them coins sir and have a lovely day. I tried to stay quiet and observe this past week but now I see people want to target me but this benefits the grid so thanks guys

    3. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      Just out of pure curiosity, what grid are you from or own? and did you make the list?

    4. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      honestly our numbers would have been much much much higher had we not had no many mishaps with our hosting company costing us to lose many residents and sims owned by residents to to clarify. As far as being dishonest, there is someone is this conversation that cannot be topped I’d have to lie every second to keep up. Please do not try to discredit or call us names and you don’t even know us all you know is what you read here. Where were you last week???? If you would like to talk hit us up tea is on us Have a great Night Donna ☻

    5. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      where is the moderator???? everything i say is removed this person outright called us dishonest and bad business ppl this is allowed?? Do I hear SLANDER?????

      1. lmpierce@alcancemas.com'

        Hi Karen. If you find a comment that violates the discussion guidelines, please use the flagging feature to bring it to my attention. Sometimes I miss a comment, sometimes I have not seen a comment at all, and sometimes I do not initially find that a comment is in violation of the guidelines. When a comment is flagged, I always reread it and re-evaluate it.

        1. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

          Well thank you I do find it offensive, this person has no involvement with the running of Baller Nation nor has she had any dealing with us but she’s calling us names. She has no involvement what so ever but speaks as she knows facts

      2. chrisx84@live.ca'

        Welcome to my life on here. Anything I say gets deleted too. Even been banned a few times already

  9. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

    My partner and I discussed not responding to the negativity in this forum. But I want to say this yes Baller Nations numbers are down , mostly due to the outages we have experienced lately. But activity is coming back, Our sim owners are returning due to the fact we were down with having to obtain a new host. The time spent to get the grid running as it should. So I say keep watching, for a grid that’s only been around 10 months we welcome the exposure. Because in Baller Nation We Do It BIG !!!!! Hold on to your Britches cuz We are here !

    1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

      AND WE ARE NOT GOING ANY WERE

  10. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

    If we had made this list 2 weeks ago Alex your response would have been a total 180 degree turn lol , but it’s all good we are happy now and will not let you or anyone else steal our joy. Our focus has always been Baller Nation and that will remain the same Have a great day☻

    1. netinterprizes@yahoo.com'

      Karen..you are missing the point. Baller Nation did not make the top ten. Maria made a mistake. Anyone here can agree with me. ACTIVE USERS past 30 days you only had 84 users. It is not REGISTERED USERS that count. Ask anyone on here yourself. I am not stealing your joy. Your numbers are not TOP ten numbers.

      1. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

        Alex NO I am not, my point is YOU !!!! and the fact that if we were still with Avilabs you would be in here with your chest all stuck out boasting and bragging that you helped us get there ( which would have been a lie) But you are salty because Baller Nation Is NO LONGER being hosted by you. Mighty funny Alex now that BN is gone so is Avilabs so your cash cow has left the building. As you stated we hanging with Elvis. What you fail to realize is, is that people don’t walk away from good things. We walked away from your company. You didn’t walk away from us, all the while last week while this forum was going wild with comments you were still trying to get us to stay with you. Why? because even you know a good thing, despite the nasty things you were saying to us on this forum. So you know what Alex for only being a grid of 10 months I say Hooray for Baller Nation for even a mention. Leave us alone Alex , go look for your next victim we are no longer interested in anything else you have to say. Besides you have another project you need to focus on besides BN ‘s daily operations, the 25th is approaching !!!! Tada have a great day ☻

  11. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

    Good Luck with AviWorlds !

  12. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

    [3:39:11 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: User Status Count
    This grid has 5 users online.
    There are 0 HG Visitors.
    There are 847 registered users.
    There are 26 active past 24 hours.
    There are 84 active past 30 days.
    There are 26 active HG Visits past 30 days.
    Most users on was 10 on Today.
    [3:39:15 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: now ……

    [3:39:59 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: the reason registered users is down is a simple reason we deleated over 30 accounts owned by josh and alex (verified by the same email)

    [3:40:44 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: and we only did that recently so that wouldnt have shown up in new stats untill we sorted it
    [3:41:20 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: the current stats are the true figure and its only down due to the removal of over 30 accounts registered to josh and alex to thier email

    On behalf of Baller Nation Grid hosted by Genesis Alex has nothing more to do with this grid if you need any more info please contact Monique Bartley or Karen Lee thank you Maria im sorry that you feel you need to cater to Alex do what you have to do thanks and have a nice day

  13. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

    hey alex!!!!! let me post my stats you no longer work for me have a nice day!!!!

    [3:39:11 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: User Status Count
    This grid has 5 users online.
    There are 0 HG Visitors.
    There are 847 registered users.
    There are 26 active past 24 hours.
    There are 84 active past 30 days.
    There are 26 active HG Visits past 30 days.
    Most users on was 10 on Today.
    [3:39:15 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: now ……

    [3:39:59 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: the reason registered users is down is a simple reason we deleated over 30 accounts owned by josh and alex (verified by the same email)

    [3:40:44 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: and we only did that recently so that wouldnt have shown up in new stats untill we sorted it
    [3:41:20 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: the current stats are the true figure and its only down due to the removal of over 30 accounts registered to josh and alex to thier email

    On behalf of Baller Nation Grid hosted by Genesis Alex has nothing more to do with this grid if you need any more info please contact Monique Bartley or Karen Lee thank you Maria im sorry that you feel you need to cater to Alex do what you have to do thanks and have a nice day

    1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

      you wanted stats there u have it we have nothing to hide or false add once again as i stated earlier we did not ask to be put on the list we are happy we are on the list even if its top 40 so instead of waisting time trying to do Baller Nations Job there is no need focus on your aviworlds and avi brasil and stop worrying about Baller Nation Alex. Good Luck AviWorlds!

  14. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

    [3:54:10 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: your still above allcity with 847
    [3:54:29 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: damn didnt realiese we deleated that many of alex and josh
    [3:55:10 PM] Erasmus Dragon Heart: so your still 9th regardles if have 931 or 847 your still in the top 10 (9th either way)

    We earned our spot fairly

    1. netinterprizes@yahoo.com'

      Well Erasmous is wrong. It is not the amount of users that count for the top 10 spot. It is the amount of uniques for the past 30 days. It is not fair for the other grids if your information is not correct. So Erasmus Dragon Heart is not correct. Nothing against Baller Nation or any other grid. The correct numbers are the amount of the unique users for the past 30 days. Not registered users.

      1. 1derful61@gmail.com'

        The honor system does not apply in sending in stats on grids. Example if a grid is offline for 2 weeks how does it generate over 1000 in unique’s ? I for one am baffled about that.

    2. netinterprizes@yahoo.com'

      No you did not earn your spot fairly because it is not the registered users that count. It is the amount of ACTIVE USERS for the past 30 days. You only had 77 and now you are at 84. Your grid is no where near the top 10 spots. Ask Maria yourself if you dont believe me.
      And you know ..HONESTY is something I highly recommend specially when people USED services and now are saying that they did not get them!

      1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

        Were you hacked or did you cut the service off i paid for so yea i told the truth and i wont be waiting around for a money order like you promised me on skype i wouldnt need to you want to start lets go alex

      2. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

        I did not pay for a service to cut off when you got ready > so this comment here is total bull HONESTY is something I highly recommend specially when people USED services and now are saying that they did not get them! Whatever you say Alex there is nothing against Baller yet you keep posting that’s your problem you like to keep stirring the pot and can’t take people when they clap back oh wait let me re say that respond back. Like I said yesterday for the 20 th time that you’re not getting whether we are on the list or not Alex you will not stop Baller Nation top 10 or top 40 we here baby so find something else to do like giving away your free regions or closing down or re-opening and move on good luck AviWorlds!!!!! You and your negative energy won’t stop us from thriving because we worked to build our own community whatever Maria puts up is what she puts up this is her article not yours you do not run hyper grid business run your own please and properly whether you got hacked or simply just closed because you couldn’t manage it the question remains is why? You are the cause of this mess plain and simple had you did what you were supposed to be doing from the beginning you wouldn’t keep getting hacked all the time or would not be forced to loose baller nation or any grid you were hosting for that matter so every time you come and try to talk negative to me I will be right here to defend my baby!! Like I said again since you do not comprehend me Alex I and my partner and the baller nation residents do not care if we are 10th or 40th we are here! So have a nice day and hope you get something else accomplished today! And another thing I like to add I’m so happy that all the other grids had an awesome experience with avilabs we aren’t concerned about that we are concerned with how our service was and we are speaking on what we experienced while hosted by the company. Not my problem and anytime I pay for something and I don’t get what I pay for I will do what I have to do sorry you don’t like that Alex now move on and lets all get back to the basics which are running our grids once again good luck AviWorlds!

  15. skylifegrid@gmail.com'

    UPDATE: Server is Purchased For the new Grid Installation started

    SkylifeGrid will not be resurrected but instead we will be Starting up a very new grid name Digitaleisure It will be a spin of what we had accomplished with Alex and AviLabs – the drama and lack of communication.. Since the grid AviWorlds and AviBrasil is down Anyone currently with AviWorlds or Avi-Labs that are PAID customers can choose to move their region over to our grid with no hassle As for the Inventory’s of all your avatars Their is not much we can do about this as Alex retains the database and wont allow us to get a copy. Your land and regions will have all content all stores will have all items for sale.. you could easily take copy’s of the inworld content to recuperate some of your inventory… anyone wishing to do so please email me at JoshBoam@yahoo.com and I can see what can be done in recovering your data .

    1. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      Good Luck Josh

    2. hartofchicago@gmail.com'

      After all the PR nastiness that has gone on the last week or so, I really do wish you the best. Though I would suggest moving announcements to your social media accounts. Here it looks sad and desperate. Besides, your target market is most likely not reading these comments.

  16. kamelionkitty@gmail.com'

    As a resident and content creator of Baller Nation i have sat back and observed this forum for the past 2 weeks .I would like to take this time out to make it pretty clear that staff of Baller Nation have held this grid together amidst multiple issues arising from inadequate service from the hosting company Avi Labs . Several residents and i have experience asset lost tp issues and other countless issues which surely did not stem from the grid owners .For Alex to even say Baller does not deserve a top 10 spot and to go as far as to find stats is beyond me . Alex the reason the residents have not been logged in recently is because the grid is recovering from YOu .I found it very strange every time the grid was growing something would go wrong assets lost When a grid can grow amidst all these set backs and still have their residents believe in them then they deserve to be where they are .And we Believe in Baller Nation . I would suggest you focus on Improving the service u were suppose to be providing .
    ..Kamelion

    1. iidripdiamonds@gmail.com'

      Well said hi five

    2. kashthetoylady@gmail.com'

      Thank you for supporting and believing in us ☻

  17. da.tonyhayward@gmail.com'

    Once again great work Maria we all do appreciate the time and effort you put into this for us. You definitely have my vote for a job well done

    1. services@farworldz.com'

      Hey Maria, I saw mention of Farworldz grid up there which is my own personal playground and workshop on the Hypergrid. Not quite sure what you didn’t understand about the grid stats since they are displayed in standard Opensim format. There are 9 actual region instances but it adds up to 24 regions when taking into account that 2 regions are var’s. The total region equivalents are given in brackets like others do and a mouse over message explains it. But I see on your list you used the equivalent’s total anyway which is right.

      I do understand the problem of scraping data from splash pages though as many owners chose to display what stats they want to show and anywhere on the page. I had this problem two years ago building the Grid Search scrapper and it hasn’t got any better. It’s just get’s worse as more grids come online so I was always making new rules for each grid and some where, and still are, near impossible to scrape anyway. As it happens I’ve been clearing out inactive grids recently and adding new ones. The scraper was meant to make the job easier but, to tell the truth, maintaining a grid list is never easy and very time consuming so I know how hard it is for you. You do a find job though consistently every month. Thank you.

      My grid search is at http://metaverse-traveller.blogspot.co.uk/p/grid-list.html

      If any grid owner can’t find their grid on my list I am updating but you can let me know in the comments.

      1. hanheld@yahoo.com'

        As long as we’re asking Maria about our stats, etc. Maria, did you just re-use June’s stats for admeja grid, or did you use a url of some sort? I know there’s a standard one that can be looked up that gives stats, but I can never remember the address of it.

        I ask because I’ve been meaning to fix the splash page, but if you have another way of getting that info, I won’t bother.

          1. hanheld@yahoo.com'

            I broke wifi in the move, hopefully I’ll manage to get it back!

      2. maria@tromblyinternational.com'

        Talla —

        The way I’m scraping data now is to search the HTML for a particular text string, and extract the numbers right after that string. So, say, if you have “Regions: 9” on your website, I can look for the text “Regions: ” and then extract the number right after it. But if you have “Regions: 9 (24)” on your website, I can’t search for “Regions: 9 (” because the number “9” may change. And I can’t search for “(” because it occurs in a lot of other places on the page. So something like “Named regions: 9, Calculated regions: 24” will work better.

        1. services@farworldz.com'

          Ok, Maria. I can do that.

      3. sugar.paolino@islandoasis.biz'

        Hi Talla. I noticed that Island Oasis is not currently listed. We opened the hypergates back in March.

        1. services@farworldz.com'

          It is listed Sugar. Try searching under Commercial or Hypergrid with the search term “social”. You can send me a logo image if you wish and your own ‘About’ comments. Email me at services@farworldz.com

  20. services@farworldz.com'

    Genesis Grid has been updated in Grid Search list. Thanks.

  21. da.tonyhayward@gmail.com'

    shame that you lied about backups isnt it josh?

    1. skylifegrid@gmail.com'

      I bet hes Not !

Comments are closed.