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132 Comments

1. 

   I am sorry but whoever is saying 500 mbps speeds is not good enough doesnt know a thing about hosting and internet speeds plus most home grids run on much less than that. Try 10 mbps.
   The 1000 mbps speed is a german based data center which I know and also use.The reason they offer 1000 mbps is because the server is located across the Atlantic ocean. Very far away.

   By the way my net does handle 1000 gigs per second but it is based in NY, USA.

   1. 

      1000 gigs?

   2. 

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5e2f23a52ce0adc588b4c8dc629e5efc5a91cfda7ec30241069a7f81d13e4427.jpg make that 10 gigillion metawatts internet and hosted from the planet mars.

      1. 

         FEED IT FEED YOUR IMAGINATION

         1. 

            ill have what cinder is smoking please

      2. 

         Hey, there is northing wrong with Mars!

         https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5988eba228176459114813daa18b41a47ab6ddfc6e23bd6c79a69de2e6e2adba.jpg

   3. 

      Many data centers located in the USA not named OVH offers faster network speeds. The one I use is one of them.
      I think your 1000gigs was a mistype?

      Alex, I have to say, you are like a bulldog. Many whom have had their noses wiped like you have in the past would have just given up by now, far before now, but you keep coming back to get kicked time after time.

      I have to be honest and say that I think your current plan is doomed to fail, but it’s great that you keep trying.
      A 1000 region grid will not be cheap to run, easy to run, and it surely isn’t one for you to run if you aren’t already a great tech.
      When you’re learning, you will lose backups, you will lose databases, stuff won’t work as it should, users will get upset because they aren’t being taken care of quick enough or well enough, restarts will need done, backups will need done, renames will need done, troubleshooting when things go wrong will need done, and I do not think a grid with that many regions can be operated well by someone who is learning themselves.
      I’m not knocking you, just trying to be a realist here.

      Why not start out by giving away 25 regions… see how that goes and grow from there?
      If you bite off more than you can chew, you will be stressed, your users will be unhappy, and you will fail yet again.

      It’s great you are learning, who knows..? You may turn out to be one of the best opensim techs someday, but for someone who is starting out, I wouldn’t bite off more than I could chew.

      Start small, polish your skills, keep your users happy and grow as you become more “savvy”.
      You’ve already shown you’re dedicated to trying, and you’ve proven to be very good at failing.

      One of my favorite sayings is from a guy named Charles Kettering…. “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten.” That means if you keep doing the exact same things, you will keep getting the same results.
      I would suggest to rethink your plan, start small, get things in order, learn all you can, polish your skills, and grow from there.

      And, with hard work, dedication and a bit of luck, you will succeed.
      Remember, even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in awhile.

      1. 

         Thats exactly what I am doing.
         I am giving out 30 regions free first.
         Than after those I filled I move on to the second server and then third , fourth etc.

         Yes my goal is minimum 1000 regions, users have to login at least 5 times per week and like aviworlds facebook page.

         1. 

            login 5 times a week and like aviworlds on fb, think ill pass. im lucky if i log into digiworldz 2 times a week.

2. 

   Hi Alex.. Not hating on you here by any means, and kudos to you for taking the initiative to learn.

   I am curious… is that 100mbps in upload and 100mbps in download?
   It’s important to make sure what you have there.
   Remember, your server’s download speed is the speed at which it can receive data from your users and the upload speeds from the server is what your users will use to download content.
   There will be of course overhead losses in those speed ratings and it would be rare that you get the full speeds advertised.
   Assuming that it is 100mbps in both directions, and no losses.. ie the speed is a solid 100mbps, each user will have their bandwidth settings at at least 1mbps.. so 100mbps divided by 1mbps = 100 users… some users have that setting much higher, but it can be limited in your opensim config files, but remember, limiting your user’s bandwidth will limit the speeds at which items in your regions will load, how fast inventory loads, how fast teleports complete, etc. Most users have their settings around 1.5mbps.. so 100mbps divided by 1.5mbps = 66.66 users can use your grid at the same time.
   Suggestions:
   – make sure you have both a master database and at least 1 slave database, more slaves would be better.
   – if you are using the fsassets system, be sure you have a means to back these up on a regular schedule.. mirroring them to another server in realtime would be better.
   – Make sure to make at least daily backups of all oars, all inventory, one of your slave databases, and your assets.
   – Your currency tables should be backed up far more frequently
   – Store your backups on multiple local servers and then at least one offsite location.
   – Will your servers have redundant power supplies in case one should fail to keep the servers online?
   – Will your hard drives be hot swappable?
   – 128gb ram is more than enough for opensim, but likely will not be usable as too many opensim instances fighting for disk access time will become a bottle neck before you can use all of that ram.
   – Will your servers have a Battery backup to power them down gently in case of a power loss, or do you have an instant transfer generator which will keep them running? Normally, if a server loses power without shutting down correctly the database will become corrupt.. something to keep in mind.
   – Since you will be the sole tech, In order to make sure the users who may take you up on your offer know all the answers to questions they will inevitably forget to ask, what sort of schedule will you keep in case your users need to rename a region, move a region, need a restart, etc.. ? It’s obviously not going to be 24 hours per day.. so I’m curious on behalf of your users what your plans are to provide tech support when they need it?
   – Will your grid have currency?
   – If so, will the currency be able to be cashed out?
   – What features will your new grid have?
   – How many days worth of backups do you intend to keep?
   – How often will you check/verify your backups?
   – You say you are giving away 1000 free regions.. is this one region per user, or how many of these free regions can a single user have?
   – Assuming you have at least 35 regions on a server, this will require you to have at least 29 servers. Do you already own these? You’ve indicated you are building them, how much are you planning to spend on parts for each server? Sounds like an awful lot of money to be investing to give away free regions.

   Just trying to get answers to specifics not mentioned here.

   Sorry, the article left me wondering the answers to these questions, so I’m asking on behalf of any users who decide to give you another shot.

   1. 

      Well keep in mind average of any grid in opensims online is 35 people, Except Osgrid and Inworldz. So with that said overkill is just overkill with hardware.
      Yes 35 people in a average grid of 600 regions surely is not that good. So his speed he has is more than enough
      to run a small grid. Not sure last time I looked this isn’t SL. Be surprised what a Home based server operation can do.

      1. 

         Good points indeed, but with a home operation, you can’t leverage the data center’s backup power, power conditioning, firewalls, and tech support. With a home operation, serving a small group of users with that type of setup is fine imo, but when 100’s of users are depending on you to provide what the other grids are providing, and you are hinting at your service as being a premium service, I think it’s misleading and leaves the users with a false sense of security.
         Additionally, any grid who tries and fails for any reason is bad for us all, so I’m more than willing to help provide advice on what I know to anyone who asks. I don’t know it all, but I’ve been around the block a time or two, I’ve made errors and learned from them, and I’m more than willing to provide info on what has worked for me and what hasn’t and why.. just ask.

         1. 

            Butch when the grid gets to that point it is obvious that the operational structure of the data center would also have been improved to accommodate the growth and support demand.

         2. 

            Not sure I agree 100%, A home based operation can indeed run successfully. Myself for 1 and another grid I know of, A large one in fact that use to be in there garage ran perfectly. Most regions run idle and use hardly no resources. Once again we in opensims know we will never ever have SL traffic. Therefor the bandwidth usage is not that drastic. 300mbps is more than enough, I use half that with 0 issues. Just because data centers offer high Mbps that does not mean Opensims needs it, A good overkill is all if one has problems then they need to check there configuration.

   2. 

      My download speed is 300 mbps and my upload is 100 mbps.
      I can buy as many lines as I want also.

      The grid has no currency at the moment. People can conduct transactions among themselves for now. Saves them the exchange fees charged by the grid.

      I have back up storage in Amazon cloud and also in my garage.

      I have battery back up already

      Regarding the DISK access I have more than 1 ssd drive in one server. Meaning I can distribute the load. 128 gig ram server (AV2) will have 4 SSDs. 16 processors.

      Me being the sole tech is fine for now. This can change later. 24 hours response rule.

      I am always checking via remote or in person. Everything!

      1. 

         300 down and 100 up is not a stable connection, need to be 300 up and 100 down for people to have a ok connection to your grid.

         having currency doesnt mean having to sell in world money for real money, can use any money mod and just let the residents go nuts with exchanging in world money without spending real money or cashing out.

         1. 

            Well I dont know how to install the money module yet. I am trying to learn that.

            1. 

               get the dll’s to whatever money mod u want to use. shut down OpenSim.exe and Robust.exe, copy and paste the dll’s you downloaded to the same folder as those two .exe’s, create a db for the money or use the robust db, set the db connection info in that mod’s .ini, think theres some settings you gotta do in robust.ini and/or opensim.ini, boot up robust, boot up the money’s .exe then boot up all your regions IN THAT ORDER.

            2. 

               Thanks Chris. If you could send me a more detailed explanation I would really appreciate. I am using version 9.1 latest from JAN 2nd.
               My email is avi-labs@avi-labs.com
               Thanks man

            3. 

               +Cristopher Strachan Do you have a write up on money mod’s and details on how to set it up? Cause I’ve seen a lot of old write ups that don’t work… or it’s lost in ton’s of other stuff like buried in a forum somewhere. Anyways I’d really appreciate a copy, others might as well… and while we are at it I’m looking for a good stats page set up, seen lots of old ones, i’ve asked a few times, but no one yet has replied… so maybe here is a good place 🙂 And lastly the map page that osgrid uses. never have found detailed info on how to set it up. did receive a old zip from someone there but so far I think none of us that played with it could get it to work.

               thanks in advance

            4. 

               https://github.com/chrisx84/opensim-stuff/blob/master/stats.php

            5. 

               thanks Christopher Strachan, works like a charm. Other then shows us always offline. Guess I have the security set on pinging us. so I changed that part… other then that … your a life saver.

   3. 

      Most users only have a small data-stream of typically 25-45 kbps going except when teleporting into a new region that is not in the viewer cache or the region they are in is very dynamic (as in packed with avatars). 100 mbps should keep you for a concurrency in the order of 300+

   4. 

      Hi Butch, of course that calculation assumes all regions are hosted by simulators behind the same router using the same connection. I suspect this is what we are talking about here anyway – but if simulators are hosted elsewhere (hosted VPS) then the bandwidth for the “grid” servers will just be inventory/teleport/profile etc etc – which admittedly can be huge on its own.

      Small edit to say: Very good comprehensive list of things to check etc – don’t often see people giving such good and clear advice – kudos to you!

3. 

   I have hired most hosting companies, I have tried most of the business modules as Maria always mentions in ANY and ALL the articles regarding AviWorlds.
   I guess I can say I have a lot of experience probably more than most grid owners combined regardless if I succeeded or if I failed.
   There is not a single problem that can happen in a grid that I wouldnt know how to fix or at least know what is causing it.
   Like GOOGLE once reported in an article not long ago; They prefer to hire people that have FAILED because the ones that only know how to succeed would not know how to resolve problems as well as the ones who have failed.

   Alex.

   1. 

      dont mean to be mean to ya alex but have you gone 2 years straight staying online? Digiworldz has, well coming up to 2 years, because of Terry Ford and his excellent team so please stop saying your better than everyone else because clearly you got alot to learn before you can be like Terry or Tim or those running OSGrid, Metro and InWorldz

      1. 

         I see your point Chris.
         But I have been dealing with opensim since 2010. 7 years. Although I am not competing with the people you mentioned above I do have experience if not in all business modules; most of them. And I did say probably. I did not say I was better than everyone else neither Chris.

         1. 

            as Dr. Phil would say “and how’s that working for ya?”

            1. 

               It has been great. I must say I have learned a lot. I have no regrets at all.

            2. 

               no regrets eh, so you dont ever regret hiring josh and quill? interesting

            3. 

               Well I am not putting it that way. I am saying I have learned a lot regardless of how I feel about it. I still have gained more experience regardless of what type of experience that was. Good or bad it is still something MORE I know than before.
               How would you know something is hot until you have touched it? Cant say smoke because it can be a piece of metal …
               The most important thing is that I will not stop doing what I like because I failed. I will keep trying until I get it right.

            4. 

               well you clearly haven’t learned how the internet works. You know it doesn’t hurt to ask for help from a expert like Terry. I have seen that guy help so many grids get into great shape that some are just as lagless as digiworldz which is a huge plus for all the SL refugee’s coming into opensim to get away from the usual sl lagfest.

            5. 

               I said I have learned a lot but I never said I knew everything. I am still ignorant on many things, many areas. AviWorlds has no lag.

            6. 

               is there a epic facepalm emote yet? totally need one for this.

               having a server connection of 300 down and 100 up means your users WILL get lag.
               it means that for just 1 user their speed to the server is 100 down and 300 up but a user doesnt need that much upload speed, thats just for movement sync and uploading content to the grid 1 piece at a time. What needs to increase is the server upload speed so users can get all content on a sim and their inv data as fast as their own internet allows. Having a 300 I/O connection is suggested as it is 300 both ways for the server.

            7. 

               AviWorlds is alread filling up. I have been asking people if they feel lag. They tell me no. I am getting more and more region orders.
               People are coming in and staying in. No lag.
               I also run more than one DRIVE. I split the services between drives that seems to help a lot.

            8. 

               Sign me up for one FREE region

            9. 

               Not true own a grid and you will see so not true

4. 

   Hi All,
   I have been running my Grid Next Reality on my own Home Computer for many years now.
   Its an HP with an Intel i5 750 @ 2.67 GHz & 2.80 GHz with 16 GB of Ram and running 256 MBPS Fibre.
   The Grid is running on 8.2 OS and is up 24/7 runs its own currency and never suffers any problems.
   (Well apart from a small glitch here and there).
   Can’t see what all the fuss is about.
   Cheers. MIke.

   1. 

      You’re running Fiber, he’s running copper, huge difference. You also spelled it “fibre” leading me to believe you’re probably in Europe, your internet is much better than ours at this point.

      1. 

         Sorry but my internet connection is pro – It is fiber optics.

         1. 

            If it was fiber it should be asynchronous, meaning the upload and download speeds would be the same or at least that’s been my experience with the very few fiber providers here in the U.S. and you stated yours is 300mbps down, 100mbps up. That sounds more like copper (DSL / Cable / UVerse/ Xfinity) which is the standard in the U.S. at this point, very few metroplexes have fiber access – which ISP are you going through?

            1. 

               Business class DSL would also be asynchronous.

            2. 

               Look I see u are trying to make a point and say u are better and I dont have what it takes bla bla and another bla and I will not waste more time on this with u.
               All I can tell u is that u r wrong.

            3. 

               I never said you don’t have what it takes. I also don’t own a grid at the moment so, no, not trying to say my non-existent grid is better than yours. I said you don’t know what you’re doing & have let arrogance flat out blind you. You’re so busy being defensive you can’t see that people here are trying to HELP you so that you don’t end up screwing over every single person that trusts you to host a grid – again. That simple. But from your comments it is blatantly obvious that you don’t want help & are utterly convinced that you know what you’re doing…yet as you’ve said, you’ve been attempting to setup a stable grid for 7 years and have failed, repeatedly. It’s really not that difficult. Obviously, you’re doing something wrong & should probably stop & look at what YOU are doing wrong rather than constantly pointing the finger at everyone else. No one knows everything and everyone makes mistakes. That’s just being human & that’s how you learn.

5. 

   Nine Lives Cat, Alex is not Dead

6. 

   Why am I bald again on the picture? I think this is a conspiracy against me here…

   1. 

      That’s not your bald head, it’s your thumb.

7. 

   FEED IT

   1. 

      Yes! Feed that imagination! Feed it! Feed it!

      1. 

         I’M FEEDING IT AS FAST AS I CAN I’M RAMMING A WHOLE HAM DOWN ITS THROAT RIGHT NOW

8. 

   I don’t mean to be a downer here, just realistic but there are serious, gaping holes in this guy’s knowledge of how this works. No datacenter worth the name would be caught DEAD trying to run on 100mbps. That’s what’s pushed to individual customers if you’re using low end budget hosting, not their total connection speed. It’s also important to note there is a HUGE difference between residential DSL and the fiber backbones datacenters use. Most datacenters, at the very least, have Quadra-Homed (as in 4 separate ISPs) 1GBPS fiber connections.

   A residential line is not reliable by design. You’re also going to deal with dynamic IPs which can cause issues when your ISP decides it’s time to rotate you out. As far as running 1,000 regions, for free, on that hardware? Not likely. Your math is way way way off Alex, that hardware w/ 100mbps home internet is not going to run 1,000 regions. It’s not going to run 100 regions at full load. You don’t have the resources in a garage unless you’re paying out several grand per month for a tie in to the backbones.

   I have 1gpbs AT&T Fiber here at my house (I’m a developer & work from home so it’s worth the cost), that works well but trying to host this on DSL or Cable would be a joke. For those asking what’s the difference, it’s copper vs fiber cabling. Huge, HUGE difference. I never realized exactly how crappy copper lines were until I got Fiber – the difference in speed, reliability and (lack of) packetloss is insane.

   Another note, I saw you noted you have a battery backup system. A UPS is designed for one reason – and one reason only – to give you a brief, safe window during a power outage to shut down your servers. It is not designed to nor will it keep you online for any amount of time that even makes it worth it for anything other than the opportunity to shutdown the servers. You need a generator or just skip the batteries and deal with a backout because those are going to be of very little assistance. A car battery could power a server, a monitor and a router for about 1hr. Those little UPS units? You’re looking at 10-20 minutes under an average load on most $100-$150 models. For a decent, instant-on, failover generator you’re looking at a starting price tag of $10,000.

   And before you say I don’t know what I’m talking about as you’ve said here of others – I’ve been the CEO of a hosting firm for 20 years. You need to step back, redo your math and then talk to other professionals (not hobbyists) about what hardware to be using. It’s been my experience here that most of the big guys are more than willing to answer questions & help out. I personally have nothing to do with TanGle yet I have a skype call scheduled with them tonight because they’re having Linux issues they can’t solve and I probably can. Closed mouths do not get fed; assume less, ask more and you might just stop losing your user’s inventories.

   It’s not just end users using OpenSim these days, even IBM is using it. What would you do if you had a corporate client using a region and their data went poof? They could sue the pants off of you & I’m willing to bet you don’t carry insurance. The architecture you’ve outlined here is reckless, amateur and frankly, doomed to fail. If you want to run a real, commercial grid – get real, commercial hardware in a real commercial datacenter. Your users are owed that, at the very least.

   1. 

      Noted

      1. 

         Not at all but with that kind of an attitude it’s no wonder you’re still spinning your wheels “man”. There’s a lot of good info on this thread, perhaps you should stop sniping at people, can the arrogance & read a bit? Just might learn something.

         1. 

            ??… Who are you again? Sorry but I never heard of u. Thanks anyway for your info.

            1. 

               Known as Micah Lunasea in-world, was a land baron for 9 years on SL; owned one of the most popular amusement parks for about 2, came over to Opensim for good about 4 months ago. I’m the CEO of Fedora Prime LLC, a game development firm & owned a hosting company before that. You can take the advise myself & others have offered, or continue to scoff at people, fall flat on your face yet again & leave the people that were dumb enough to trust you with their data high and dry, again. I will say your attitude nicely sums up exactly why Opensim isn’t bigger than SL – amateurs that think they know everything because they can turn on a computer & run a program. There’s a lot more to it than that & anyone that is even considering running a professional grid – and wants to be taken seriously – should be running professional, managed, hardware. No one wants to rez into a region and wait while your 11FPS box takes an hour to load what probably would have been a spectacular world had it been properly hosted.

            2. 

               No. Its the way presented yourself that was pretty arrogant.
               First of all I had 40 regions in SL also.
               I dont just have ONE line. Trust me I have a good set up.

            3. 

               I presented myself as what I am, a successful professional in the field that does this (game hosting & development) as my sole source of income – and live pretty comfortably doing it. People like you piss me off, cavalier about hosting OTHER people’s data – like it doesn’t matter when you lose THEIR hard work; and it does, to them. As a hosting provider of any sort it is YOUR responsibility to maintain data integrity and appropriate backups; that’s part of what the client is paying you for in the first place.

               Eventually it will get to the point that no one trusts you because actions speak far louder than words. You have multiple lines, right, so you’re paying about $4,000 per line to house a free grid in your garage? All over this thread you’re vague, give no specifics, won’t even tell us what ISP you’re using and you expect people to trust you? Sorry but I smell bull crap, a whole heaping pile of it.

            4. 

               With respect, how many regions you have or had in SL has zero bearing on your knowledge of hosting your own. I am not making any judgement as to your skills and abilities – but you would probably do yourself a favour if you listened to the advice of some of the people here who do have proven networking and hosting experience.

            5. 

               I have been reading through this discussion to find that every post by Jessica Random was completely ignored. I do not know Jessica Random inworld or out, but her tidbits of experience are extremely valuable. Why do people ignore the truth over the opportunity to expound self righteousness? I dunno! When one becomes so professional at running a grid, they will be attending meetings with the press and everyone in the room will share the surname of the local currency. Except for the press mind you!

            6. 

               alex you are arrogant. we all give ya advise and correct you and you flip out and call us names and accuse us of going against you which is totally opposite from the truth.
               And every time you shut down aviworlds its always some excuse. “josh screwed us” or “my residents weren’t paying” or “the grid was attacked”
               Like seriously man. If you really do want to succeed, heed our advice and drop your ego. America already has enough egomaniac’s in the white house, they don’t need you too.

            7. 

               I am not calling anyone here names. I think it is the other way around …the guy starts by calling me this and that I simply do not stay quiet.
               All the times I asked for help I got nothing .
               Example – I asked u to drop me an email with detailed instructions how to install a money module. I did not get the email yet.
               Anyway I am not caling anyone here names.

            8. 

               i rather send Micah my resume then to send you how to do anything because i know you will do the instructions, mess up and blame me or say you did it all yourself. You sir are as predictable as Donald Trump. Infact you act just like him, a big baby.

9. 

   The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and again… well at least Avination keeps changing. BTW, Alex you are delusional if you think running servers in your house is better than a data center. No matter how good your garage home setup is, your connectivity will go down sooner or later, hopefully for only a few hours. And your data rates are shared with everyone else in the neighborhood, not dedicated into a big pipe. You get what you pay for in hosting and bandwidth. Sure can you host something at home, but it doesn’t mean it is better.

   1. 

      Did u read in any of my postings me saying a home based grid is better than having it on a data center?
      Really ?
      I am amazed how wrong information creates itself.
      If u read what I posted here u will see that I even say that when its time and a more prefessional structure is needed; I would be looking into it.
      Ooensim was made for home usage and now I am being crucified because I am doing a garage start up. Amazing

      1. 

         home setup is mostly for testing and personal use where theres like only 1 to 5 sims and 1 to 10 concurrent users. NOT thousands of sims and users.

         1. 

            Chris.. When u say home based meaning 1 pc maybe 4 gigs ram. A sata disk with 7200 rpms.. Maybe a 10 mbps download speed with a 5 upload speed ; yes u cant run a professional grid with thousands of people.
            I am not running AviWorlds with that type of a set up.
            I am actually building a small start up data center.
            Each of my servers have their own dedicated fiber optic line with minimum 300 mbps each. UNLIMITED BANDWITH.

            Now lets talk servers.
            OVH , Soyoustart. Hetzner etc all have 1 disk (sata) and maybe another as a RAID 1.
            250 MBPS .
            4/core with 8 threads 3.4 ghtz

            My server AV1.
            I have 32 gig ram.
            8 core processor 4.0 ghtz. Pure processors. AMDs. No threads
            4xhds. 3 are SSDs and 1 is for back up.(sata).
            1 ssd is for data base and robust.
            1 ssd holds only region instances (25)
            1 ssd holds only region instances ( 25)

            1 sata hard drive is for daily back ups. 1 terabyte.

            As u can see my AV1 server is more powerful more capable than ovh,soyoustart,heztner servers currently been used by most grids.

            and Iam now building AV2.
            another 300mbps line.
            128 gig ram.
            4.16 ghtz with 16 processors
            4xSSDs. To spread the load so its not only 1 drive doing all the work.

            Feed it!

            1. 

               (facepalm) alex still doesnt get it

10. 

    @Alex Ferraris. To be honest Alex I cannot see the problem you always seem to be having with AviWorlds. Like I said in my post The Next Reality Grid has be running 24/7 for years without any Major problems. OK I don’t sell regions or land, but my grid runs nicely and has always done. Over the years I have done my best to help you out with setting up AviWorlds and help you to run it. Surely by now you should know that I know how to run and get a grid running so it doesn’t constantly go down. Once its up and running and configured correctly, That’s it. Job Done. The Grid runs itself. Its just maintenance to make sure it continues to run smoothly without any hiccups.

    1. 

       Exactly.

    2. 

       Mike do you know how to install the money server?

       1. 

          Josh taught me how to install the Chinese money modules using his videos. Easee Peasee. It works on my grid and has done for ages. Not sure you will get it to run with the new OS 9 though. That’s one reason I will not upgrade to 0.9 as well as all the other things that will not work with 0.9. 0.8.1/2 is fine for me.

          1. 

             ok I asked you if you could help me . Thanks

             1. 

                Like I said. You are running the latest OS 0.9. Very unlikely the Money Module will work with that.

             2. 

                The Japanese Money module updated this week for 0.9.

11. 

    AviWorlds already holding 15-20 people online. 25 free regions given out so far.

12. 

    Best of luck Alex!

    1. 

       Thank you Frank

13. 

    Lets talk about success here.
    Maria is basing AviWorlds success mainly on how much time its been online. Then again each time AviWorlds is online it breaks its own record in traffic.

    I guess we need to really analyse what success really means here or what TYPE of success are we talking about? Success in keeping the grid online? Success in making the grid be profitable? Success in bringing people into your grid? As we can see there are many types of success we can talk about.

    I see Avination, InWorldz, Craft, Metropolis, Osgrid, Island Oasis, DigiWorldz and all the rest have been online for a long time but I do not see major growth in size or even the money side of their success.
    These grids in my opinion have succeeded with the exception of Avination and AviWorlds and others; only in keeping their platform online. I have not seen ANY of these so called successful grids making millions or even thousands of dollars.
    I can go even further; NONE have succeeded as a real business or game platform.
    They are online yes! But then what?
    So maybe Maria could write an article about what KIND of success OPENSIM grids really are trying to achieve? Staying online? yes I can see that…
    Unfortunately I do not see success just by keeping a grid online. Not for me.

    Now its your turn!

    1. 

       As you say, success has no one definition. And people define personal success individually. But you are not talking about success, even though you are using the word “success”. You regularly attempt to reframe erratic behavior and hyperbole as indicators of “success” (for trying) when in fact those qualities are shortcomings in these specific endeavors.

       Maintaining a reliable service over time is exactly what most virtual world users want and need. Virtual worlds are not movies that only need to last an hour or two to give pleasure. Rather, people invest their time and resources in them with the expectation of ongoing participation and rewards.

       Your track record has shown instability in the extreme. Most definitions of success in business do not begin with, “Extreme instability characterizes this service in which people can expect disappointment”. But that is the description of your activities.

       But let’s take your frame of reference, that success means making thousands or millions of dollars, and therefore others have not been successful either. I use a virtual world service that has made thousands of dollars, maybe even their first million. They have been running continuously for years and provide rock-solid service. Even their short downtimes for maintenance and upgrades are scheduled and announced in advance. I’ve been inworld during a shutdown, and even then I never lost a prim.

       This service does not make wild claims about numbers and traffic. They do not close and open and close and open… and then claim “success”. They do not berate other services. In fact, they do not talk about success. They talk about providing value and service. That’s why I do not mention their name. You can guess, but that’s the point, you don’t need to. And I don’t need to advertise for them because they have already earned more success than all the shouting from mountain tops could ever bring.

       Likewise, other services have provided the same long-term qualities of value and service.

       What you’ve done is confuse a claim with a process. Success, the kind worth having, can be defined many ways, but always includes the fact that it is the outcome of a process that gives value. You talk about success as a badge of honor. You cannot claim success, you must earn it. You must provide value. It is not something you win, it is something you earn and must nurture and maintain. You have yet to earn that kind of success in the arena of virtual worlds and this round of antagonism towards others does nothing to suggest things are going to be any different this time. Less talk, more solid, reliable service… Be a great service and others will do the success broadcasting for you.

       1. 

          Ok rock solid service. That is 1 success definition. But then again I ask; is that all? Rock solid service but no growth no financial profitability no market share… Is that really success?
          Most grids I look and check almost daily I see 1 to maybe in a good day 10 or 15 online. Is that success? And I am talking about the famous grids the so called big ones that never is shut down.

          AviWorlds has been online now for 1 week? We are having about 25 to 35 people online now. A grid that as you wrote above has an extremely bad name and has shut down more than 5 times.

          1. 

             “Ok rock solid service… that is one definition [of success]”… You deride that as something trivial and incidental. Rock solid service is, for most consumers of services, the number one universal criteria of quality leading to success. You have completely missed the most obvious metric throughout the world of what service “success” means.

             And we are clearly not thinking of the same service in my remarks that you say has a bad name and has shut down more than five times. But that, as I noted, would be beside the point as there are many great services and my experience is just an example for pointing out the shortcomings in your approach.

             You are not reliable or consistent. It has become utterly irrelevant how many visitors you have at one moment or another. You have no long-term business model. You have no reliable value proposition. You could. It’s not impossible to offer these things. Others have made similar suggestions, but your pattern is to rise and fall, and then repeat the same routine over and over again. This instability is your core issue and undermines whatever intentions you express to the contrary.

             1. 

                in other words alex, we aint being negative, we are trying to knock some common sense into your thick ego head of yours but you wont listen and call us all negative. But forget it now. I give ya 2 months and you be closing down again and blaming everyone else for the shut down as you always do.

          2. 

             To me success means “meeting your goals”. Lets say I set up a new bank. I offer all kinds of great incentives to get people to bank with me. They get things like free mobile phones, high interest on savings, low interest on loans etc. Its great – it looks good and people flock to my new bank. I continuously offer new services and these are all popular. Would this indicate success? Possible….. However if the underlying infrastructure of this bank was shaky then it really wouldn’t matter how much progress I have made on offering great features – because people suffering financially because of me are not going to care.

             my point is that while growth is great – it is meaningless without a stable infrastructure in the first place.

             if my goal was to have a stable grid that offered reliability and to have my users feel happy and safe, I would consider it a success if that happened. If my goal was to make thousands at the same time – and I didn’t…. then I would not consider it a success. You could even say (would be weird but still) that your goal was to make a grid that no-one wanted to go to. Run it badly and it’s a success – you achieved your (weird) goal.

             For a commercial grid to succeed, whatever else it has to do, it has to gain the trust of its users that the infrastructure is going to be reliable. You may say that it needs more for you to consider it a success – but if it doesn’t get that far – it stands no chance of succeeding.

       2. 

          Yeah. Wow. Well noted. Thanks. Thats your point of view but you are not perfect either. Like your name here u are human and pretty much imperfect impierce..get it? Lolo

14. 

    Did the crucifixion end?
    Ok. Good.
    I am going to do what my heart tells me to do.
    I dont care what a bunch of negative people think specially if they are against me and are so negative that it drains my energies…

    Being that said I am going to be placing a few more regions that were ordered in AvIWorlds.

    Take care good night all …Feed it!

    1. 

       Do what you need to do Alex, but please dont assume that all suggestions or even criticism is negative. Some is just to help you avoid issues. I’ve seen a lot of people here offer really good advice and I am pretty sure that these people would be more than willing to discuss even more with you outside this forum – I really would take advantage of all this help.

       1. 

          Offcourse. I agree. I never said I dont welcome criticism . but if I think something is right and I believe in it: I believe my instincts I will go with I believe is right.
          I have been asking here for help on the money module and so far no one has offered.
          Anyway yes u are correct.

          1. 

             Hello Alex,

             As I’ve indicated, I never turn down the opportunity to help another within our community.
             Info is always free, just ask.
             support@digiworldz.com

15. 

    Hello Alex.. Congrats, but maybe these users would not appreciate the whole world knowing they were there?
    Seems maybe a privacy issue might come from posting that info from someone.. maybe not.

    1. 

       Not an issue at all.

16. 

    visitors, not accounts. Visitors just mean people coming to visit wanting to see how laggy the grid is.
    {facepalm} alex will never get it

    1. 

       Sorry but if u read it correctly Chris it says about 170 accounts and how many times the residents came into the grid.
       There is no lag in AviWorlds
       I have been asking everyone and they all say its great . maybe u should go there and see it for yourself

       1. 

          Haters will always Hate even the fan boy who responds to your comments on a daily. He knows who he is.

17. 

    I dont understand why the developers cannot make opensim come with a money module already installed and a registration site. The opensim installer could then choose if he or she would want a currency or not.
    WHITECORE comes with all that and much more !
    Just saying

    Alex

    1. 

       Most likely because of the potential legal minefield of providing a money module. Something goes wrong and someone blames a bug in the module – and the core OS team take the hit! Its left to third party grids to come up wth their own systems which means core OS team developers can concentrate on improving OS rather than litigation.

18. 

    Avi-Labs / AviWorlds has now an advantage over other grids that generally rent their servers from a third party. They are bound by these data centers TOS. That can be a problem some times.

    Avi-Labs is now building our own servers. We own our servers. We are not bound by no one’s TOS but ours.

    We are building our machines to fit our specifications and needs.

    Example is our servers have more than 1 HD. SSD. not the case with these rented servers. Usually they have 1 HD and the other is a raid1.

    1. 

       The benefit of these data centres people often use – is their connection. Unless you have a LOT of money to burn you won’t be able to have the same data connections a proper data centre has. The connection then is probably the weakest link – even if you have the hottest OpenSim hosting servers ever built.

       1. 

          My connection is higher than most data centers.
          I have explained over and over again that my connection is not a regular home internet connection.
          I have 300mbps on each of my lines.
          And to top it off my servers are build to spec .
          Example.
          AV1 server. Has 4 x SSDs
          1 ssd for data base and robust
          SSDs 2 and 3 are for region instances only.
          1 SSD back up
          8 AMD processors
          4 ghtz
          32 gig ram.
          Avi-Labs builds and owns our own servers.

          1. 

             Hi Alex,

             Yes you have explained you have a better than average home connection and that is good. However all data centres (at least all of any respectable size) have far greater than 300Mbps connection. Do not confuse what connection the datacentre HAS to the connection speed the datacernter OFFERS its customers by default. OVH for example offer me only 100Mbps connection – but they have far greater than that. Also you have said your connection is 300Mbps down and 100Mbps up unless I am mistaken? Effectively that means your connection is really 100Mbps for most purposes. Someone uploading assets to your server will use the download speed, but someone going to a region on your server and having objects streamed to them – is using the upload (your server is uploading them to the client). Objects rezzing for people is down to your upload speed.

             Having said that – I believe that 100Mbps may be sufficient with few users sharing that. With for example 35 regions on one server – and each server having its own link, this is probably fine and lag-free for an average region with only a small handful of users on that server. However if there are 35 people – one in each region – and those regions are highly populated with objects (and in particular large image assets) it will be a very different story.

             Of course over time you can build up a picture of which are your heaviest regions and move them off to other servers to balance the load on the connection – but it will definitely take more work on a smaller connection that needs more of this kind of management.

             I am NOT an expert. I have worked as a Linux Sysadmin for over 20 years – but I would not describe myself as an expert – especially not an expert in the requirements for an OpenSim grid. But for 35 average regions – I suspect your hardware is just fine (assuming you have data security taken care of properly) but your weakest link is your network connection right there. It may work well for you – but it would make me nervous personally.

             1. 

                Each of aviworlds server has a dedicated line. I m not using one line for the whole grid.
                I have unlimited bandwith also.
                So each server has 300mbps . unlimited connections/bandwith

             2. 

                Yes I get that – although it is really each server has 100mbps as its the upload that really counts. Thats why I say it may be ok if that server is not heavily loaded. You can of course balance that as you go anyway. The 300mbps download is only really relevant when people are sending stuff TO your server – so positioning data and uploading assets. Its good to have yes – but the real traffic is people downloading assets from your server to their viewer to display them – people downloading uses your upload. You upload – they download – so its limited to the 100mbps – not 300mbps,

             3. 

                Jessica it is happening now in AviWorlds. People are downloading and uploading, dancing, chatting and all. No problem.
                Our servers are not like OVHs or Soyoustart. I build my own and like I have explained already the line is powerful and it is not a normal home based connection.
                I pay alot extra for these lines.
                I am really building a mini data center in my home actually.

             4. 

                Lets be serious here for a minute, OVH rents servers for all types of ventures and yes some ventures need ALOT of mbps. Opensims is not one of them. Actually 2 soup cans and a wet string will work. Remember where your at, Opensims where over 40 people online in any grid well most any is a god send. With that said a over kill is just that a over kill. Question is will 1000mbps work? Indeed it will will 100mbps work yes it will. So any home based server system running opensims with a constant 100mbps is more than enough. This has been tested time and time again. If it don’t work for you best check your config because its been working just fine for me and many others. Seems alot of people here are on some kind of witch hunt.

             5. 

                Also our servers are much more powerful than OVHs. These data center servers have 1 HD. And 1 raid 1.hd
                Ours have 4 SSDs. 4ghtz.
                8 processors.

                Ovh has 4 core/ 8 threads

             6. 

                Totally agree with you – at least their budget range VPS I use. Totally different league and I would not use my VPS with them for anything more than the temp regions, OAR test etc I use them for. Any system though is only as good as its weakest link – in your case the 100mbps upload stream per server is your weakest link in your setup. I am not saying it WONT work – but it seems too low to me for more than a few people.

19. 

    The Larsen region is packed full at capacity, we had trouble getting the last DJ into the region!

    1. 

       FEED THE DJ! FEED IT!!!

20. 

    I don’t know why I have decided to speak up here since I know posting on Maria’s page always brings the haters out.

    Alex and I have butted heads many times….. but putting personal issues aside I need to say “Why is everyone coming down on him so hard?”. He tries and fails and tries again and maybe at some point he will make something work to his liking. You only fail when you quit.

    Also he is offering free regions. FREE. So once those free regions go up and it crashes at least you aren’t out any money.
    I understand people wanting to warn everyone to do backups and that you might be wasting your time if you get a region there. Warnings are fair enough.

    And I have to admit that I don’t understand the techie part of this but I don’t feel that I need to because I don’t think it needs to be argued.

    I think this is hitting home to me because every once in awhile I get someone who picks up one of my free items and then decides to IM me or post on some public forum that my item is crap and should come in more colors or should fit better. And I just want to scream that it’s free. If you don’t like it then don’t take the free offer.

    So to all of you who think this is a bad idea……….. don’t take the free region. No need to build yourself up by spouting off your knowledge of GHz or memory or whatever it is you all are talking about. I’m sure you all are very smart. Pat yourself on the back. Just let him be and if he crashes and burns I am betting he will pick himself up and brush himself off and try something else. That seems to be his M.O.

    But if he doesn’t crash then he has built something that he can be proud of and that makes him happy.

    1. 

       Well said Linda

    2. 

       Please do not confuse criticism with hatred. Critiques are welcome at Hypergrid Business. Principled critiques… critiques that identify errors in judgement, planning and execution are vital to successful experiences for people. Whether a service is free or not, if the service is presented to invite others to participate, how those others are treated and the quality of outcomes are still important, both to how people feel and to how they are able to fulfill their own needs while being interdependent.

       The previous failures of Avi-Worlds have led to blaming, accusations, flame-wars and malicious derision. I personally feel a sigh whenever Maria runs an article on this particular service… I know I’m going to have a few days of difficult moderation. Alex participates just as much as those you call ‘haters’, so this is a group dynamic.

       Quite a few people offer free goods and services in the OpenSim ecosystem. Most contribute their time and effort with little fanfare. Most are clearly interested in the satisfaction of the ‘clients’ as much as the pleasure they derive for themselves. Maria wrote an article announcing the latest opening of Avi-Worlds and Alex has had a free forum to demonstrate that this time will be different, that it will work, and that he is on the road to success with a strong following.

       But, he has earned skeptics in spades.

       1. 

          To be clear……….. when I mentioned “haters” I was referring me not normally writing here because it brings out “my” haters. I should have been clear about that. This is based on my past experiences here and my trepidation in posting here.

          When I talked about Alex I was focused on the huge number of posts here with people coming down on him and some even name calling. The naysayers. And I agree that everyone has a right to be skeptics when it comes to his projects. But, you have to admit, that this is like any other public forum where when certain people get a chance to pounce they do. The same people watch and wait and either see this as a place for them to get their past grievance out or a chance for them to tout their knowledge of the tech world.

          And to be clear on another point……… I am not an Alex fan. I wouldn’t take one of his free regions. But I admire the fact that he doesn’t give up on his dream. And I would rather pull people up than push them down when they are struggling to achieve their dream. And also I understand that some people here were posting information to actually try and help him. But it’s clear that some posts are simply troll postings for their own enjoyment.

          Maria’s article here posted the facts. The facts themselves are a warning to people. That’s fair and I believe she did a good job with her facts.

          I don’t know…. I think I have changed as I get older and in the last couple of years I have spent a lot of my real life time in the company adults with intellectual and physical disabilities and I have learned the value of compassion more than any other time in my life.

          And just wouldn’t it be nice if the majority of posts here were “How can I help?” instead of “You can’t do it” ?

          1. 

             ‘Haters’ and trepidation about posting was the reason for starting moderation at Hypergrid Business. Imperfect as it is, moderation tempers the worst of any ‘hate’ dialogue. Over time, I have removed quite a number of posts against Alex that violated the discussion guidelines. However, to be fair to the commenters as well, I have also removed some of Alex’s posts. Derisive declarations have flowed in both directions.

             In trying to understand the distrust and concerns behind those who do post thoughtful and legitimate critiques of Avi-Worlds, that particular service, by any measure, has been erratic, unpredictable and poorly executed time and time again. Yes, Maria posted factual information and a warning, which has a certain detached authority. However, the views of the readers also constitute the substance of this publication and provide insight, advisement and warnings. In particular, questioning the technological foundation for a technology-based hosting service is one of the best ways of evaluating the potential for success of that service. Alex believes he is creating a suitable foundation for another incarnation of his service and various readers have questioned the merit of his technical propositions. This I think is exactly the kind of dialogue that should take place in a public forum on such a service. Likewise, many question his temperament as a professional to initiate and manage such a service. He has given the community cause for concern in his reactions when things have not gone well on previous occasions.

             I have no problem if Alex or anyone else pursues a dream. There is, however, something more public to consider if the pursuit of that dream includes the invitation of others to participate as a condition of its fulfillment, and then those same participants are repeatedly left with losses (especially of time and emotional investments, two substantial forms of loss). This does not mean Alex should not try again. But most people do not like to fail, or be the victim of the same failures by another, over and over again. If they speak out against such a situation or the person behind it, they are naysayers with cause, and they are justified in giving voice to their concerns based on their experiences.

             I would just add that your comments about compassion are touching. I do not see a conflict between compassion and expressing concerns about the impact, validity and meaning of the actions of another.

             1. 

                I’m sorry…. did you feel like i was asking you to moderate something or remove someone’s post? I wasn’t complaining about the moderation here. I am sure you do a fine job. I didn’t see anything that would be considered “hate speech”. Mostly I was just trying to add a bit of positive to the mounds of negative here and help balance. And I wanted to voice my respect that Alex keeps getting up and trying when he falls down.
                But thank you for your response and sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

             2. 

                Well I for one think your comments are right on the mark Linda. Once again well said! It’s nice to see some positive comments once in while. Big thumbs up to you.

             3. 

                People are extremely Bias here, Take that into consideration.

    3. 

       Thank you Linda! Exactly. Well said.

       1. 

          FEED IT FROM YOUR GARAGE FEED IT FROM YOUR LIVING ROOM FEED IT FROM THE ROOF OF TRUMP TOWER FEED IT FROM SATURN’S RING I DON’T CARE WHERE YOU FEED IT FROM FEED YOUR IMAGINAVINATION

          1. 

             yes! Feed it all!

          2. 

             I don’t get it.

             1. 

                Sorry Linda , Cinder is referring to my usual slogan … Feed your imagination! Feed it. lol…

    4. 

       You know Ms. Kellie, that was a very nice comment with great compassion for someone with whom you have no bond. I also am not an Alex fan, but again, I am not a hater either, yet I am often finding spiteful things said about me.

       Your contributions to Open Simulator were the foundation stone for hundreds, if not thousands of would be entrepreneurs getting their first prim bytes shaped into their personal dream. Many have learned from you because you gave so freely and encouraged others the same.

       As grandma Case always said, ” If you have nothing but shameful things to say about others, then expect to hated by all for being so pompous.”

21. 

    FEED IT PARTIES IT HUNGERS FOR PARTIES AND IMAGINATION! FEED IT

22. 

    Why pay for a virtual world region?
    AviWorlds offers new comers to our world a 15000 prim free region. No questions asked.
    Many grids are charging 20 , 40, 60 dollars for a 15000 prim region.
    Even if its 5 dollars you know that region is probably stocked up into one server ONE disk only sharing its processing power with another 50 regions.
    Our servers are designed to handle the processing required to run properly and offer our residents a good and strong virtual reality experience!
    Our servers have more than 1 disk processing the region instances. That means no region will be competing for the disk’s attention. Yes! The writing on the disk.
    We also use 1 instance per REGION! No 4, 5, even 10 regions sharing 1 instance.
    So what are you waiting for? Oh! You want an OAR? Sure thing! Once you finished building your region just send us an email requesting one!
    We will be glad to make an OAR of your region for you! FREE!
    Enjoy your day !
    Alex Ferraris.

    1. 

       How about IAR’s? Are they freely available too? Are you only giving people the regions for free for their first month or 2 and after that they pay? Or are they free until your next reincarnation? In spite of Maria’s article and all your posting here, neither of you have put out much information about the long term plans for this new Avi-worlds phase.

       1. 

          The regions will remain free forever.
          OARs are free and we place them for you.
          Long term plans are. Avi-Labs now owns its own servers, we build them to spec and we host our grid. No more third party hosting.

          1. 

             I was asking about IAR’s not Oar’s.

             1. 

                Yes I can do that too. FREE!

23. 

    This comment is just because I realized I was missing so much and had not commented here.

24. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQidywZdbqo

25. 

    I have read through about a third of the comments here, until they turned into a technological war about who has the best connection/hardware/service.
    I will have to agree with Linda Kellie here and I am just glad to see folks offer virtual spaces, either free or paid. Anything is good for OpenSim!!
    Awesome that Linda is still involved in OpenSim, she did so much for it! I don’t think there is anyone who hasn’t heard about Linda and has at least one of her items in their inventory.
    🙂

    1. 

       I agree…. well said

26. 

    Yup, I get ’em backwards just about every single time. Good catch lol