E-Mail 'Lost World opens freebie shops with iffy content' To A Friend

90 Comments

1. 

   You mentioned ‘iffy’ content yet, is there proof?
   I read statements like: ‘there COULD be problems’, ‘MIGHT not have correct creator names’, ‘MAY even be distributed illegally’….etc…
   All I read here is that someone is tagged with accusations, lacking any kind of proof.

   At least you posted the HG address and info on where to find the shop, so we can go and get some of that ‘iffy’ stuff.. 😉

   1. 

      That’s why there’s “iffy” in the headline, not something definitive, like “infringing.” And the reason for the hypergrid address is so that content creators can see if any of their content is in there.

      We sat on the story for more than a month, to see if the grid owner could find the provenance or the licenses for the content.

      As a general rule, if you pick up a random set of freebies on some grid, then distribute them on a different grid, there’s a very good chance you are violating the original creator’s copyright.

      If you don’t know who the original creator is, don’t distribute it. if you don’t know what the license terms are, don’t distribute it.

      1. 

         Was a time a few years back i had licenses on all my creations I gave away for free, Come to find out a silly note card with permissions on it DID NOT work. Reason is people just simply deleted them and said there was non provided and I was really tired of checking grids for my stuff. Being I had to go round and round to get it taken down. So in a Perfect Virtual World Licenses do work not the one we are presently in. If you where a creator these things you would already know, And infringing content would not exist. Like I told David I been giving away items of all sorts for many years never a issue, Try not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, Not everyone has money to indeed buy iffy licensed content in marketplaces or inworld stores.

         1. 

            The goal of having license notes in your content isn’t to prevent people from stealing it. Thieves are going to steal. The reason for the license notes is so that legitimate users know that they’re getting legitimate content. This is particularly important for businesses, educational institutions, and creators who make derivative works.

            You don’t want to accidentally include an infringing component in a commercial product.

            The question of enforcement is a separate issue. For example, folks are always ripping off Hypergrid Business articles in order to post them on weird websites in order to get Google AdSense traffic or whatever scam it is that they’re trying to pull. I used to go around and shut these sites down. (All it takes is an email to their hosting provider, and they’re usually down the next day.) And frankly, I got bored with it. These guys weren’t doing me any harm — it’s not like they’re taking away legitimate readers from this site. The people being harmed are Google and advertisers, and they have an army of lawyers looking for these sites and shutting them down. For all I know, it wasn’t my DMCA takedown request that shut down the site, but one of theirs.

            I think the same is true in OpenSim. Your legitimate customers are going to want to get legitimate content, and they want to pay a fair price for a fair product, so that you stay in business. They buy stuff from your official store or from the Kitely Market and other reputable sources.

            The crooks aren’t going to spend money, anyway. They’re crooks.

            So my policy is, if I see high-profile content in a public venue, where people are likely to find it, then I follow up. For my articles, this means that I ask them to reprint only the first couple of paragraphs, then link to this site for the rest of it.

            For in-world content, I distribute it under the CC0 license so I don’t have to deal with enforcement at all. I can do that, since in-world content creation isn’t my primary line of work, and I don’t mind donating the scripts or whatever else that I create.

            For professional creators, I recommend keeping an eye out on the Kitely Market and a couple of the most popular shopping malls. If you see infringing content on Kitely, they have a very easy process for getting it taken down. If you see stuff on other grids, ask them to replace your premium content with freebie versions (say, from previous years) or demos, and to put up a link to your official store.

            Just like with reprints of my articles, if someone distributes your content illegally by accident, they’ll be embarrassed, and try to make it up to you, and you can turn a potential problem into a marketing opportunity.

            If they’re crooks and don’t care that they’re stealing, file a DMCA and shut them down. At this point, there is so much good, free, or reasonably priced content in OpenSim that anyone who deliberately distributes stolen stuff deserves everything they get.

            1. 

               Like I said earlier myself and a few other have tried the Licensing and it simply don’t work all the time. When I have to start chasing my stuff in others grids it simply is not fun. License is easy to delete and claim is was never there. Lost World is DMCA registered and never ever has content in my grid been questioned until now by clever double talk. If I see items in Kitely market its not my business to say anything I’m not the owner nor a resident and if I did half would not be for sale same with SL.

      2. 

         But we all know the license terms. Copy/Transfer is the license. There is zero chance of legal trouble by taking a Copy/Transfer item. And this magic grid has nothing to do with it. you are again thinking os SL’s TOS. The author has explicitly granted the right to copy transfer anywhere unless the creator explicitly restricts this somehow. Even SL cannot stop someone from taking full copy/mod items out. They do not own the content!

         1. 

            only problem is, the creator and uploader aren’t always the same person and unless someone has both uuid’s to compare or is familiar with the item in question from a previous other grid it can be a hard thing to determine. I found a copy/transfer ROOST house, and apparently the ‘creator’ set it as such, only the creator doesn’t seem to be the same person who created the same ROOST house in SL. (or of course downloaded OARs etc) Though I suppose if the writing can be found somewhere, (again, needing to know that the item is from another creator/grid) then this can be more easily proven.

      3. 

         Why was the onus on the grid owner to provide provenance and licences? Had they been accused of anything? And even if they had, surely the onus is on the accuser to find the evidence to prove that content is illegitimate?

   2. 

      Most all content in Opensims is “Iffy” being Mesh mostly is ripped from online games and from 3dmesh content sites. I have seen many many people actually do it and have seen it sold in many grids for profit. I say offer it for free may curb a lot of theft running amok in virtual worlds. I have been offering free content for many years and with unique visitors in the hundreds every month and never a issue is a positive thing in this Free Meta verse.

      1. 

         Yeah except its not a free metaverse. There are content creators that own the license to those creations. The whole set it free crowd is just totally ignoring that fact. Even free content should be redistributed if you don’t have an explicit license that allows it.

         1. 

            Example if you sell Airplanes chances are they came from a free 3d website and your actually ripping off free content for profit, They do this all day long in SL and a lot of it is present in Opensims. Airplanes are just a example Item. Yes indeed there is actual creators and there isn’t many most are just importers and that’s not a creator. I can have a field day going from grid to grid and store to store pointing out questionable.

            1. 

               OK time to grow up, you mentioned aircraft from 3D sites, most of the people we have used who supply them have the creators permission, be it paid for or freely given to them. ( and yes we have verified this)
               Ya think its well past the time to respond professionally to the article?
               Like instead of ridiculing people, say something like you don’t endorse content theft and your builds were obtained legitimately.

            2. 

               Mentioned no names, try not to show guilt in responding to nothing thanks. Not to mention I have double the amount of planes you have 🙂 Try to relax a bit. btw if there is a moderator here your statement accusing will be deleted.

            3. 

               Joe you have some talent, and I’m told mature start acting it. There is a genuine concern in OS and SL re content theft. All you have to do is respond maturely not say you haven’t been in open sim long and the rest of it.
               As I said grow up or start acting your age.

            4. 

               you serious? not sure what your saying, There has been a concern for many years on content theft. I see I’m being scolded for giving away my things and other things shame on people with no common sense, BTW I’m registered with DMCA and have been.

            5. 

               yes i am serious all you have to say is you don’t endorse content theft and all of your content is legitimate to your knowledge.
               If someone disagrees with your statement then the creator of the alleged product should be contacting you saying ‘hey joe I’m not happy about this being sold here”. Alex often uses the statement Feed it. that’s all you are doing is feeding any critics you have. You certainly can give your creations away and I admire anyone who does do so.
               You will remember a witch hunt a few months ago on the same subject all it did was make people nervous.

            6. 

               I do not need to defend myself just today I had close to 18 visitors. Again you mention witch hunt in fact it is. Who would think giving away free items is a crime

            7. 

               Giving away stuff free isn’t a crime, I totally agree with that!
               In fact it is a good way to get people started in open sim and a useful marketing tool. Neither is selling legitimate content on a commercial basis a crime either.

            8. 

               “Giving away stuff free isn’t a crime” – Totally depends on how it was acquired! If I steal from a warehouse and give away the televisions I took, yes, it’s a crime. Perhaps you meant an alternative wording: “Giving away stuff that was knowingly given away by the creator isn’t a crime.” That I would agree with.

            9. 

               Yup sorry i should have typed giving away free legitimate items away isn’t a crime.
               Thanks Impierce

            10. 

                Many items on many 3D sites have full freedom of use. Each item is listed differently on those sites so it depends. Doesn’t mean the content is being ‘ripped off’. And although you have permission for all the free content by the people who ‘created’ it, some of the creators are still questionable. like your Bento Mesh Avatar with the image of Maitreya on the wall, labeled as Athena and containing an item that has Maitreya as listed. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e722a6f60e83d67aac54126c20fd1a5608ab023ed3e391694c2b3c4089a6e1dd.png . Also I’m going to guess that many of those visitors are there because they were checking for content after reading this article. So, whereas yes you might have the uploader’s permission – and you might have no reason to suspect some of the items you have up, it doesn’t always mean there isn’t botted items around. Also doesn’t mean you have intentionally put these things out realizing they might have been botted. These items are showing up everywhere in OS now and I’m sure some people just assume they are genuine OS content.

            11. 

                Many of those visitors where taking copies like they have been for some time now. I see no reason to explain any further. If I get any type of Take down notification things will be removed until then all stays up. And many more happy faces will be made.

            12. 

                I see you spew a lot of negativity about freebies anywhere they allow you to post G+ included why is this? Are you trying to be nominated for the Opensim Police I’m curious. Like I said and been saying I have permission and not to mention I’m registered with DMCA. Probably best to let this rant rest its very old news about illegal content being SOLD which I do not do.

            13. 

                Then you do not read well Joe. The only things I have commented on are the actual FULLY botted items that are listed with the SL item names, and are identical copies. Ive been in OpenSim for at least 5 years. I love it. But when stores promote themselves with botted content in their promotional images it’s sad. Keep it real. That’s all. *cheers*

2. 

   Had a look at a region named ‘Stuff’, but most meshes do not even Rez to me. It is overloaded with junk.

3. 

   If the items in Lost World are iffy I would say conduct a search in all the opensim grids specially OSGRID. I think it is time to stop the witch hunt.

4. 

   this is not NEWS or NEW – this article is tabloid journalism

   1. 

      It happens that reporters and news organizations do sometimes sit on a story, either waiting for verification of the information, or to give due diligence to fairness. As noted, the delay was to give the grid owner time to establish provenance or licenses for the content. Taking a beat is actually something there needs to be more of… that is to say, journalism often reports a bit too quickly for adequate vetting and then all manner of confusion and rebuttals and retractions ensue.

      Investigative journalism does fact checking and undercover work and acts to uncover malfeasance. People are constantly taken in by unscrupulous others and it is often the investigative journalist that does a great public service. A marshal enforces laws, and that is not the activity here. A reporter exposes activities, stories, facts and suspicious activity. That is what transpired here.

      So in this case, what exactly is your complaint? If Hypergrid Business does not report on questionable events, businesses or people, who should? Do you mean to imply, ‘buyer beware’ is the only standard by which businesses should be run or held to account? Who should speak on behalf of consumers?

      Creative content that is taken and distributed without permission is one of the leading causes of grief in virtual communities. I find ‘iffy’ a great cautionary word. Businesses have a responsibility to the communities they engage with.

      So, again, I come back to this idea of the journalist having actually paused, taken a month to confirm or receive confirmation, and all with transparency to the business in question, before any reporting was done. That is actually quite laudatory.

      ‘Tabloid journalism’ was incorrectly applied here.

      1. 

         innuendo and assumptions make for sensational tabloid journalism – it is not the responsibility for any region or grid owner to defend themselves but rather for good journalism to ferret out the facts and truth – that is not present in this article – “Investigative journalism does fact checking and undercover work and acts to uncover malfeasance.” quote lmpierce – Don’t see any “facts” in this article only a very slanted opinion – I stand by my original comment – I will not respond to any further comments here

         1. 

            Completely disagree. Region and grid owners have a responsibility to respond to reasonable requests for authentication of the goods and transactions on their services. Even the ‘safe harbor’ provision does not exempt a service from the responsibility of intervention over what goes on, it simply gives them varying amounts of legal protection from prosecution if illicit activities are determined.

            Completely disagree. The lack of provenance and licensing appears to be the salient fact, and the heart of the problem. The conclusion is that the content is ‘iffy’. Perhaps a similar, more legal sounding term would be helpful. ‘Questionable’, ‘non-verified’, ‘suspicious origins’ all come to mind.

            1. 

               No additional license is needed for full perm or items with a Copy/Transfer setting. The author has explicitly granted permission to distribute.

            2. 

               Nope. Not true. Permissions and licensing are 2 different things. If something is copy/transfer then because transfer rights are attached you have the right to transfer it but that still doesn’t imply tacitly you can redistribute it any way you want. Fact is the permissions system in grids is pretty much inadequate in describing fair use. But its not IMO correct to assume if something is copy/transfer you have a license grant to distribute it any way you want.

            3. 

               “Pemissions and licensing are 2 different things.”. They are the same thing. The word license means “permission to use the property of another”.

               The permissions system in opensim grants a license to use, copy or modify. Someone with the express (or implied permission) of another automatically has a license to copy, transfer , or modify.

               Adding an express license, by a adding notecard or having a sign or image describing it provides permissions to use in exchange for consideration. (money, or another benefit such as a promise not to sue in exchange for it being free)

            4. 

               Well yes except the deficiencies in the current system have been expressed and discussed many times. There’s no transfer once permission for instance. That leads to 2 scenarios. People who want to treat the system as liberally as possible (everything should be free) and people who want to create content and be more prescriptive about how its used in a system that doesn’t provide for it. Hence my comment. The permissions system is an authorization mechanism for use of content within a single grid. Single domain of control. It’s not a blanket license for use of digital content. It’s fairly common for people to use real license grants when they distribute digital content outside of the grid, Unfortunately the more liberal concept of authorization has created enough abuse that we’ve lost the “license” to use some content in virtual worlds.. For example: 3G Textures (https://www.textures.com/terms-of-use.html). So at best I don’t think its as cut and dried as you’re describing hence the reason we have the problem.

            5. 

               region and grid owners ONLY have a legal responsibility to respond to legitimate creators who may feel their content is not authorized and no one else …. the author of this article is not an original creator so requesting proof of ownership is not required to be given … however the response by this author is to “assume” content is “iffy” and to print it as such is tabloid journalism at it’s best and devoid of facts or proof creating drama and spectacular headlines, whoo hoo success, congt’s.
               The legal framework is there for original content creators to deal with this issue so all this whining and complaining by those who are not the original creators is just that.

            6. 

               As a matter of universal tradition, the buyer of an artwork has the right to request verification of provenance and the seller is expected to provide it. Only a fool would purchase artwork without this. In large part this is because if, after the sale, the artwork is found to be forged, stolen, or otherwise illegitimate, the parties can be compelled to return themselves to the condition prior to the sale, i.e. return of the item and return of the purchasing funds. I would argue that creations made for OpenSim qualify as artwork. So, in the first case, your argument about who has rights to question provenance is incomplete.

               As for questioning in general, though, anyone can question anything! It is also an entire field known as investigative journalism that seeks to get to the truth of matters, often without the consent of one or more parties. A lot of corruption, abuse and illicit activity has been revealed this way. Perfect, no. Principled and valuable to all of us, yes.

               Tabloid journalism is usually characterized by false accusations, gossip and unverified information.

               I read no false accusations or gossip in the article. The article is about a service that itself cannot verify information about the products it sells. No conclusion is reached as to whether the content is legitimate or not, but the very real fact of uncertainty is raised. Uncertainty about provenance is an entirely legitimate concern in any creative field.

               It is also the case that our obligations in life are not limited to legal obligations. I have found that integrity often depends on compliance with requests that satisfy our ‘need to know’, whatever that may be. I may not have a legal right to compel my date to reveal if she is married, but my request to know this would probably be considered by most people to be reasonable, and understandable… and if evasion is offered instead of a direct answer, then it would hardly be drama on my part to be concerned, perhaps even suspicious.

               I don’t understand what it is you’re arguing to defend. Why is transparency about ownership and creator status such a contentious issue? Creators are not well-positioned to spend their lives policing their works. Rather, if we all take part in ensuring that people are properly credited and respected, creators can stay busy making things, and others can stay busy using creations as they were intended to be used.

               Arguing that questioning freebie stores if their goods are all there with their creators’ permissions is somehow misguided seems itself a good way to drive creators away from the field and accomplish nothing in return.

            7. 

               Never said anything about any persons “RIGHT” to ask. Rather I said it is the LEGAL RIGHT of an original creator to demand proof and no others. It is also the LEGAL RIGHT of the person holding content in question to ask for PROOF of creators claim and ownership. All others can cry.
               To ask WITHOUT the LEGAL RIGHT to a response and then promote an article that “ASSUMES” the content is “iffy” because they do not get a response is the worst kind of fake reporting. It is “speculative one sided opinion” not based in fact and serves no one except the publication who derives income from site traffic from such click bait headlines.

            8. 

               The content is ‘iffy’ because it does not come with provenance. That’s the problem. Nothing ‘fake’ about it. We’ll continue to disagree about this.

            9. 

               Provenance is not a requirement to provide anyone except to original creators who may feel their content is without permission to be offered.
               The content is “iffy” only because sleazy journalism says so due to the fact no reply was given to a request for this provenance. So this author makes the false assumption that because no reply was given it is suspect and the content is “iffy”.
               Under this kind of tabloid journalism anyone can be accused and vilified by hypergird business without facts or proof of wrongdoing.
               I feel very bad for the guy who owns this region who has been slapped without cause or reason other than not providing what he has a valid legal choice not to.

            10. 

                We’ll continue to disagree about this.

            11. 

                DMCA might be good for the USA, but it’s not a lot of use for Europe, and many grids are based here.

      2. 

         I suppose your new to opensims, Free and Take copy been around a long time and still is present. If one lives in a world of paranoia then don’t take whats given freely. Investigate the larger grids being actual creators are few and far between in these Opensims.

         1. 

            You have conflated issues. Social responsibility and respect for creators is not paranoia… copyright is a core issue in the arts. It may be the case that due to the relatively small monetary value of most items in OpenSim, most of the fights over provenance and copyright are more symbolic than material. At the same time, those discourses are essential for principles of integrity, which matters to many regardless of market value. Few people feel okay about being ripped off… I’ve never met a person who honestly appreciated having their creative work taken without credit or payment. Only when a creator explicitly authorizes such is the outcome equitable.

            The other separate and troubling implication of your words is the idea that if something is prevalent, it’s normal. You implore me to investigate the larger grids. Are you new to OpenSim? As a creator myself, I have often used the Inspect tool to see the creator name of an object, and given my experience, I’ve verified a lot of original creative content used with permission. This makes content taking all the more unacceptable as there are means for each consumer to verify a purchase in advance.

            1. 

               All my content I have collected has been explicitly authorized by the creator to copy and transfer to others. I honor any DMCA requests, I do not have to include additional license because I have permission to copy and distribute and it would be improper for me to add one. I do not appreciate insinuations of anything else then what I said.

5. 

   Discussions going on about this all over right now. It’s really sad that people respect other people’s work so little that they feel unabashed in freely redistributing it. (not saying that that IS the case above, as I’ve not been there to see, but it is certainly the case in many grids right now and many regions promoted on opensimworld.)

   1. 

      There is many people in Opensims and yes SL also that do only Freebies being they have RL income and like to see people smile, Yea I know its hard to believe but it happens. Look for Example Outworldz Grid all is free one of the most spectacular places in all of Opensims. May want to work on that fact checking you been doing 🙂

      1. 

         Not quite sure what that has to do with my comment.I’m very aware of the Linda Kellie freebies and many amazing freebies by various OpenSim creators, I’m also aware of the i-Reckon creations, ROOST, Barnesworth Anubis, Maitreya, Freya, Truth, Xcite and many, many other items i see in at least 5 regions I’ve visited that aren’t just laying around as part of their own scenery as something they’ve found BUT boxed up for free distribution in their ‘stores’. Don’t assume I am unaware of the difference.

6. 

   “By default, content uploaded to individual grids, even content tagged with full permissions, is only licensed for use on that one grid.”.
   Where did you dream that license rule up ? Second Life’s TOS?

   1. 

      Fred — it’s basic copyright law. For example, if you’re a writer, and submit a story to a magazine, if there’s no contract they ONLY have the first publication rights. If they want to reprint it, or publish it online, they have to pay extra.

      17 years ago, the National Writers Union sued the New York Times when it began posting freelance articles online without additional permissions, and won the case. (https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/00-201) I was on the board of the local chapter of the NWU at the time, and the case was a huge deal for all of us.

      Unfortunately, though we won that battle, freelance writers actually lost the war, since the New York Times and all other publications switched to all-rights contracts, or work for hire contracts.

      Today, when I sell an article to a major publication, I have to sign away all rights to it. There are no more reprint sales.

      What this means for grid owners is that if they buy content from a creator that they want to reuse for other purposes than the first initial use, that they need to have a contract with that creator — a legal contract, with a legal entity — allowing that use. So, say, if a grid folds and sells all its content to another grid, it may be in violation of copyright law.

      In your contract, in addition to asking for the rights you need, you also should ask the creator to affirm that the content does not infringe anyone else’s copyright.

      I’ve written about this quite a bit.

      I’ve also posted a sample creator contract here:
      https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2010/08/provider-agreement-for-virtual-environments/

      And a sample TOS here:
      https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/07/copy-this-terms-of-service-policy-for-your-grid/

      1. 

         Maria, I think you misunderstand contract law and the permission system. If an author gives out a copy of anything with explicit permissions that anyone can make further copies (Next owner Transfer + Copy perms) then they can pass copies on, or sell them, with no restriction. You will see many items on sale in Second Life marketplace like this. There is a contract in place, the owner explicitly offered it, and the person with a copy accepted it.

         Assume a HG visitor picks up a full perm (or T+C item) and takes it away via the hypergrid, It is theirs to keep, give away, sell or use as they see fit. They have accepted the authors offer to do so, and all courts would enforce the visitors rights to this contractual agreement. If the author does not like this, then they must restrict it by including a contract in advance of the sale, or by revoking the explicit agreement being offered by unchecking the Copy/Transfer checkbox..

         Also, I think you should be saying . “is only licensed to that one user”. Otherwise there is no such thing as copyright on a grid. But think this through: as a direct result of limiting it to one user, then, items could only be legally received from the original owner. Any other use except first sale rights, would be a copyright violation. In other words, Transfer/Copy is illegal. Every Transfer/Copy item would be a glaring copyright violation. And every grid owner, with direct knowledge that people are using full perm goods, would lose his safe harbor, too. Needless to say, taking such a position on copyright seems ridiculous.

         Adding a license to a digital good changes this. Let us assume I add a notecard to a mesh saying “No Transfer without adding a Hat”,and I make it full perm. This is a term of sale. You cannot give it away or sell it without adding a Hat, because if you do, you will violate our contract. Nothing has changed in Copyright law by adding the clause. Copyright still belongs to me. But you violated our contract, you have no defense in court, and I can sue for copyright violation. if you add a hat, then you just point to our legally binding agreement that I offered you, and you accepted, and no court will find against you.

         Now we make it full perm again, and leave out the license. The Copy/Mod/Transfer product gives me explicit, legally binding permission to copy, mod and transfer it. You have made me an unlimited offer to resale, distribute, and copy the article, and I have accepted it. And that, once done, cannot be “taken back”. It’s now free for anyone to copy, resale, and transfer, forever. Once out of the bottle, the genie cannot be put back in.

      2. 

         ” So, say, if a grid folds and sells all its content to another grid, it may be in violation of copyright law.”

         First sale doctrine applies here. Perfectly legal in Europe and the USA for that grid to sell a copy of all the content so long as they do not retain a copy. See 17 U.S. Code § 109, (a).

      3. 

         Opensim users automatically get a license by contract to copy/transfer items anywhere, on any grid, when the creator sets the prim to copy/transfer. The creator has expressly made an offer and has granted permission. Someone with the express or implied permission to copy or transfer an item automatically has a license to copy or transfer that item.

         Adding an additional license, such as a Creative Commons clause, extends the contract between parties by exchanging the authors additional permissions (or restrictions) for consideration. Consideration is money, or another benefit, such as a promise not to sue in exchange for it being free.

      4. 

         Maria, you’re confusing written material with artistic material. There are subtle differences in copyright as applied to the two areas. As one with experience in copyright law, I’m surprised that you overlook this fact.

         In the case of virtual world content, your entire witch hunt (and that’s what it is) is wrong. The creator has complete control of his/her original creation via the permissions system. Legally, if it was set to full-perm, that is permission to distribute. And you know this. So what’s the real reason for this series of articles?

7. 

   For some reason, this comment got deleted. So I am posting it again.

   I think you misunderstand contract law and the permission system. If an author gives out a copy of anything with explicit permissions that anyone can make further copies (Next owner Transfer + Copy perms) then they can pass copies on, or sell them, with no restriction. You will see many items on sale in Second Life marketplace like this. There is a contract in place, the owner explicitly offered it, and the person with a copy accepted it.

   Assume a HG visitor picks up a full perm (or T+C item) and takes it away via the hypergrid, It is theirs to keep, give away, sell or use as they see fit. They have accepted the authors offer to do so, and all courts would enforce the visitors rights to this contractual agreement. If the author does not like this, then they must restrict it by including a contract offer in advance of the sale, or by revoking the explicit agreement being offered by unchecking the Copy/Transfer checkbox..

   Also, I think you should be saying . “is only licensed to that one user”, instead of “is only licensed to that one grid”,. Otherwise there is no such thing as copyright on a grid. But think this through: as a direct result of limiting it to one user, then, items could only be legally received from the original owner. Any other use except first sale rights, would be a copyright violation. In other words, Transfer/Copy is illegal. Every Transfer/Copy item would be a glaring copyright violation. And every grid owner, with direct knowledge that people are using full perm goods, would lose his safe harbor, too. Needless to say, taking such a position on copyright seems ridiculous.

   Adding a license to a digital good changes this. Let us assume I add a notecard to a mesh saying “No Transfer without adding a Hat”,and I make it full perm. This is a term of sale. You cannot give it away or sell it without adding a Hat, because if you do, you will violate our contract. Nothing has changed in Copyright law by adding the clause. Copyright still belongs to me. But you violated our contract, you have no defense in court, and I can sue for copyright violation. if you add a hat, then you just point to our legally binding agreement that I offered you, and you accepted, and no court will find against you.

   Now we make it full perm again, and leave out the license. The Copy/Mod/Transfer product gives me explicit, legally binding permission to copy, mod and transfer it. You have made me an unlimited offer to resale, distribute, and copy the article, and I have accepted it. And that, once done, cannot be “taken back”. It’s now free for anyone to copy, resale, and transfer, forever. Once out of the bottle, the genie cannot be put back in.

8. 

   Its pretty cheap to be covered now by agency that protects copyright material etc.. (DMCA) My suggestion is that every grid should enroll and let them fight for it. Anyone who has an issue with a specific item should file a complaint to DMCA. Instead of having all these discussions about it. Simple! Easy! The grid owner has to take the item down if it is proven that it is an illegal copy. Grid owner complies and it is all done with no problems.
   So all you grid owners out there.. Sign up for DMCA its 6 bucks per year now. Place a rule on your website about copyright infringement and some kind of a form that people can file a complaint and the DMCA website link.
   EASY! NO HUSTLE! NO PROBLEMS!

9. 

   Wow… sounds like a Witch Hunt to me…. I’ve never gotten a license or joined the DMCA and I give away full perms all my builds, I was under the impression once I checked all the boxes (mod-copy-transfer) that took care of the ‘iffy’ inference. I’ve known Joe for a long time and he would make sure the items he puts out are full perm and legal, and he is also a member of the DMCA… doesn’t that count?

   1. 

      It is exactly a witch hunt. The idea is to spread fear, uncertaincy and doubt about free grids and free content, so that there is no competition to whatever folks decide to sell.

      It’s absolutely no coincidence this story comes on the heels of the so-called chamber of commerce announcement.

      The problem is that the opensim community is ill-prepared to fight any sort of meaningful battle on this front.

      The most likely outcome is that your chamber of commerce will excert pressure on grids such as metro and osgrid to get rid of whatever free content they deem threatening, and then use legal threats and intimidation to pressure smaller, independent grids off of the hypergrid.

      The end game is to have only monetary grids such as kitely left.

      It’s not a question of copybot; it’s a question of libre culture versus rabid, authoritarian commercialism. It’s much more an ideological and cultural battle. Copybot hysteria is an integral weapon used by the free metaverse’s opponents; get ready to see many, many more copybot witch-burnings in the near future.

      The battle that needs to be fought is ideological; however most of the people involved here actually believe in and buy into the the same viewpoint as those who are working to undermine the free (as in cost, as in freedom) hypergrid.

      You’re going to see more accusations mount, I bet that eventually the legitimacy of known free content (eg Linda Kellie) will be discredited.

      The end-game -as I said, is to wipe out the free, non-commercial metaverse.

      God help the lot of you …you’re all gonna need it.

      1. 

         Actually Some of what you said is true. I know for one I’m tired of the accusations against other’s on this subject.
         I think Open Sim needs free content & commercial content, both offer people choices.
         Oh if anyone questions the legitimacy of Linda Kellie content I’ll be the first to back her.
         Since the article some months ago re a certain grid seeking legal action against alleged content thieves this whole subject has got blown all out of proportion, and really what happened about that? just a fizzle no bang!

         1. 

            Agreed about Linda Kellie and about choice. I worded that really poorly though -her content in particular can’t **actually** be discredited, but I can easily imagine ideologues running a smear campaign against it (and against free content in general), which is what I meant.

            1. 

               Agree Ser Han was a little – well you and never stop 🙂 I do both – sell and give away. Still looking how an old (redacted as its a red flag word) Labour Party member who runs biz too can possibly fit in (grits teeth). Still looking….
               And yep have doubts on the HgCoC because – net neutrality of all things, to pick a low plum. Scope of relevance notwithstanding.

            2. 

               Yeah, I have a pretty strong feeling that if net neutrality leads to decreased bandwidth and performance for non-approved (netflix etc) sites, it’s gonna end up being a pretty rude shock to not only opensim; but sinespace, sansar and sl as well.

      2. 

         I searched the article webpage for the word ‘copybot’ and found three matches, all in your comment. The article does not mention copybot, at all. It does discuss copyright and the issue of creative content used without permission.

         But more significantly, what do you mean, “authoritarian commercialism”, as applied to OpenSim?

         OpenSim is maintained by a handful of volunteer developers, seen through viewers (TPVs) created by volunteer developers, representing worlds (regions) filled with content that can either be made at no out-of-pocket cost, or filled with content from others, most of which is free from myriad websites. There is one noted marketplace where people who desire what amounts to a tiny amount of remuneration for their hard work can place their goods for sale. And there is a lot of taking and using of content without creator permission. There is no overarching authority of any kind. None. Nada. There are commercial or free to use options. “authoritarian commercialism” is a complete misuse of the expression.

         Remember that OpenSim, which can be experienced as a completely no-cost for admission ‘theme park’, arose in a deeply commercial culture and economic environment – quite counter-authoritarian, counter-commercial when you think about it, right? You say that there is an ideological battle being waged, when that is not at all what is happening. You are spreading the very fear, uncertainly and doubt you rail against.

         Despite Second Life, and the upcoming technologies of Sansar and High Fidelity, (and whatever else is out there just over the horizon) everyone is free (literally and figuratively) to continue using OpenSim to their heart’s content.

         1. 

            “I searched the article webpage for the word ‘copybot’ and found three
            matches, all in your comment. The article does not mention copybot, at
            all. It does discuss copyright and the issue of creative content used
            without permission.”

            Put another way “it doesn’t talk about copybot, it just talks about copybotted stuff -totes different!”

            “But more significantly, what do you mean, “authoritarian commercialism”, as applied to OpenSim?”
            I’m referring to the ideology and mindset which certain members of the opensim community adhere to and represen t.

            I”m referring to the mindset that I see on various communities that advocates using legal violence (lawsuits) to shut down smaller grids.

            You mentioned opensim developers, tvp developers and grids, but not the “chamber of commerce” -which is a self-appointed authority which one can -and should- easily see using authoritarian tactics to bully open grids and smaller grids into either compliance or (through the use of legal threats) non-existence so that the members of that cartel may enjoy less competition, and because at least one (doubtlessly more) member appears to have an ideological (meaning a political viewpoint) that all free content is theft and illegitimate by definition.

            “Despite Second Life, and the upcoming technologies of Sansar and High Fidelity, (and whatever else is out there just over the horizon) everyone is free (literally and figuratively) to continue using OpenSim to their heart’s content.”

            Technically, if you ignore both the social side, and the damage which will be caused as copybot crusaders push folks out with their witch hunts and (eventually) cause smaller players to shut down over dubious legal threats (why else would you start a cartel unless you wanted to use it?).

         2. 

            >”You say that there is an ideological battle being waged, when that is
            not at all what is happening. You are spreading the very fear,
            uncertainly and doubt you rail against.”

            Except that the motives of the anti-copybot folks are out there play as day for one and all to see -and those motives are ideological. Again, that’s what I mean when I say that by sharing the same viewpoint hinders proper threat assessment -you’re too close to it to be able to see where it will go once it’s reached it’s logical conclusion.

            It’s difficult to tell what’s a witch hunt if you believe in witches and think a few burned innocents are simply the result of a misguided but otherwise legitimate investigation. No, the burned innocents (the falsely accused, those pressured out of the hypergrid, smears, etc) are the inevitable result of this hysteria.

            1. 

               I read your points and still conclude that you are spreading the very fear, uncertainty and doubt you rail against.

               However, I will address one point you make, that somehow a Hypergrid Chamber of Commerce is (already, without any track record as evidence) a “bully” with easily seen aims to reduce competition for its members. Furthermore, at least one (unnamed) member and “doubtlessly more” appear to have an ideological viewpoint that “all free content is theft and illegitimate by definition.”

               It is unreasonable and invalid, and I would add unconscionable, to accuse anyone of any wrongdoing when there has been no wrongdoing committed. The proposed chamber of commerce has not even had a first meeting. Furthermore, even in the ‘real’ world, chambers of commerce are not seen as cartels or the enemies of volunteer organizations, swap meets, freebies in the freebies sections of newspapers…in other words, entities that conduct affairs without high-level systems of monetary exchange. From where do you derive your fears and ground your ideas that this is an actual threat?

               But as you say, in so many words, we will see what the likely outcome of all this will be. I hope reasonable people will just relax and have fun, and see the extremism and fear as weird entertainment. OpenSim just isn’t the ideological battlefield defining human civilization. It is a technology that we can take or leave without heinous consequences. It can entertain us, or let us practice business and socializing, or support our being creative. The monetary dimension is small, and for most, tiny or non-existent. If people do not enjoy the opportunity to make the most of this nearly free-to-play technology, it’s not as if they are victims of a conspiracy. Nothing is happening at that level of malfeasance.

            2. 

               You may divorce ideology from opensim -but that doesn’t mean that anyone else will.

               To an ideologue, every little thing is a “battlefield defining human civilization”, and that fanatacism will guide them in forcing changes that are not at all in the interests of those of us who just want to be out here and be creative.

               You do know that a conspiracy doesn’t require membership in the illuminati, right? You don’t have to be a lizard person to engage in a conspiracy. Where two or more people (guided by ideology, profit or even simple malice) get together in common, agreed-upon purpose you have a conspiracy. No masonic lodges needed. 🙂

      3. 

         Some nasty stuff happening, and there are always those who aren’t happy about the availability of free content. I was recently chatting to someone about the now sadly gone OpenSim Creations site, who told me about the issues that Vanish had with various attacks launched at the website, probably because it was seen as a threat to the small minded creators who felt that the free content was a threat to them. It was a brilliant idea, a repository of free content that was strictly non-commercial.

         We need something like OpenSim Creations once again.

         1. 

            Need a members list of those people

            1. 

               That’d certainly help, but I’m guessing this group will end up being a bit like the Illuminati and not exactly advertise who they are. I haven’t the time, (or, to be quite honest, the obsessiveness) to pursue who they are exactly, but I’ve placed lots of signs around my island, and also anyone visiting will land directly on a ‘carpet’ using a similar design to the signs. They’d have to be pretty blind not to notice, and also a little thick skinned to ignore them. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/29e2d26191280ebbf8a62059cb1a1d6ec0292bf788dd8dbe5509efea06efe718.png

            2. 

               I tend to agree with you on all of the points you’ve made. I’d hold off on posting the signs -though keep them handy. They’re still at the point where they may very well just evaporate for any number of reasons (not enough immediate pay-off, lack of interest, infighting, etc etc). I’d encourage you to wait and see -though don’t wait too long, of course.

               At this point, by playing up the threat they pose, you actually are giving them a publicity boost and moral encouragement (the fanatics in that crowd will take your resistance as validation).

               At this point, I’d simply warn your friends, warn your neighbors about them and give encouragement (traffic, whatever) to any free grids that resist the HGCOC.

               I’m glad you see what I see, and any org like that typically (and by definition?) is or becomes a cartel.

            3. 

               I’ve only posted the signs on my own island, and have no plans to escalate any campaign – if people want to pick up the ball and run with it too, then they are welcome to use my sign, either as is, or as a basis for their own versions. I will be mentioning this ‘development’ to my many friends.

               But you’re right, and I wouldn’t want to do anything that could increase these people’s sense of entitlement.

         2. 

            One of the cool, and interesting things about Vanish is that he had the integrity and knowledge to fend people off when they tried to bully him and his project. I was a part of OSC and I miss the heck out of that community. unfortunately the internet and the opensim climates have changed to such a degree that I don’t see it being practical to restart it.

            Not to mention that Vanish -along with a long list of other free creators, has said “nuts to this” regarding opensim and either moved back to SL or left VRs entirely.

            1. 

               “Not to mention that Vanish -along with a long list of other free creators, has said “nuts to this” regarding opensim and either moved back to SL or left VRs entirely.”,,,, and this is Open sims biggest issue, people are getting tired of so called “issues” and as Han said are saying “nuts to this”

            2. 

               Climates do change, but that is normal, and they can change back again. It’s sad that so many have left OpenSim, or perhaps even worse, moved back to SL, (and I know a few former OpenSim stalwarts who have done that). The big outage on OSGrid in 2014 was a huge blow, or rather the way it was, in my opinion, (mis)managed. I know a couple of talented creators who haven’t come back subsequently – and I have to admit that I myself don’t have much of a presence there these days, as I no longer have much faith in that grid, and besides, during that six month period I got used to hosting my own regions, and no longer see the point of grids at all. Sure, this might make OpenSim appear an unmanageable, anarchic mess to the control freaks out there, but people such as Vanish, and you as well Han demonstrated that it was possible. I’m sure there are many others out there who haven’t spoken up for those ideals, which is a pity, as they were ideals that anyone, and almost everyone could buy into.

               About the only people who would find it difficult would be the wannabe 1% who seem to want to be able to carve up the world and call it their own, and to then be able to control who gets what, and for how much.

               I don’t share your lack of optimism over restarting a project like OSC. It needs people to come on board, and to support the idea, and that I feel is going to be the hardest part. I can understand people saying ‘nuts to that’ about many things, I’ve said similar about campaigns I’ve been (sometimes quite committed in) involved with. But sometimes, after a while I’ll feel reinvigorated, and if and when the time is right, I’ll take up the (metaphorical) cudgels once more.

               We must never let it slip from our attention that OpenSim is an opensource project, and that means that it will be impossible for anyone to take it over whilst there are people out there who are committed to keeping it open and free, (as in freedom, as well as beer) despite the moves of some who would seek to hijack the project and commercialise it.

            3. 

               I would be willing to participate in an open-source project along the lines of OSC again, as in contribute content to it, possibly even get into making Oars again…and I definitely support the idea.

               What I’m not able to do is spear-head it myself. I was just in the hospital for heart problems three weeks ago and unless I want to go back again (which is a strong possibility as it is) I have to keep things …everything… very low key. DMCA fights and the stringent advocacy that a OSC II project would require undoubtedly would put me six feet under right now.

               You are absolutely right about the open source nature of Opensim. I think that at the end of the day the commercial side will flame up, fizzle out and you’ll be left with a core group of people running little mini-grids …that our hobby will go the way of the CB/Ham radio craze. I think it can go on as long as we have computers capable of running opensim binaries -period.

               In that sense we’ll always have opensim. I’m more worried about smaller grids and home-based grids being driven off and our mindshare being reduced that way.

      4. 

         This is the most entertaining conspiracy theory I’ve read in a while.

         Could you post evidence – links, threads, sources – to prove that this is all, in fact, happening? from where I’m sitting it looks like pure, delusional paranoia and fearmongering on your part. Please source your claims.

         I’ve not seen ANYONE engaging in the behavior you describe above. Do not forget that commercial content creators in OpenSim are OpenSim users too! We like freebies just like everyone else. But we also have bills to pay in the real world, and unfortunately not all of us are privileged/wealthy enough to be able to give away our free time and labor. So some of us sell what we create. It doesn’t mean we want to push out the freebie creators. (Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from?) It doesn’t have to be one or the other – we can co-exist in this space. We have been *doing* so.

         The only one I see trying to create a divide between freebie creators and commercial creators is you and others like you, concocting some insane conspiracy theory about a secret war going on that I’ve yet to see any evidence of. Practically every commercial content creator I’ve met or talked to has not only had ZERO issue with freebies whatsoever, many of them even use and wear freebies openly on their avatar.

         Freebies are a healthy and needed part of the OpenSim ecosystem. They allow new users to quickly get content for their avatar and region(s), which makes them more likely to stay. That in turn ultimately benefits commercial content creators because people are more likely to stick around in the community and get invested into it. More users = more potential customers. In that way, freebies and commercial content can co-exist and thrive together. Anyone who demands that only one or the other be allowed to stay is nothing more than a bully.

         1. 

            Since I have no idea who you are, I’ve no idea what you’ve read, where you hang out and therefore are familiar with -your background, I’d have no idea where to begin to educate you. It’s probably best if you educated yourself.

            As for me? I’ve been here for years, and I am basing my viewpoint off of conversations both that I have participated in, and that I have observed on social media (eg G+).

            You’re right to not blindly take my word as gospel -I wouldn’t expect anyone to do so. Look at what the people who are advocating things such as the HGCOC say in public threads, look at the attitudes they express and then the actions they take afterwards.

            No, I’m not going to spoonfeed you a URL; I’m basing this on experience and observation over the course of time. Take the time, read the public discourse and the actions taken afterwards and decide for yourself if I’m a kook or not. I’ve put in the work, you (you personally, and you the audience) have to do your own legwork just as I have. If you know enough to talk knowegeably about kitely, you know enough to know where to look.

            So go read the threads, learn who the people are, and what they say. Look at all of it with a critical eye. Who does and says what -and what have they to gain?

            Come to YOUR own conclusions -I’m basing my opinions on public discourse and actions. the info is out there if you look for it.

            ” (Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from?)”

            The concerted PR frenzy over alleged stolen content both here and G+, for starters -which, as I explained, followed on the heels of the HGCOC announcement.

            And, as I said -from reading what people say …”when someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time”.

            “It doesn’t have to be one or the other – we can co-exist in this space. We have been *doing* so.”

            Indeed we have, but there has always been people who have attacked the legitimacy of open source (libre, not simply demo or shareware) content. Either by comparing it to theft or whining about how it steals money from for-profit creators. Going back to Eloh Eliot and probably further back than that.

            You know Eloh Eliot -the woman who killed the SL skin market by making her skins open source …or so the hysteria at the time claimed.

            Lastly,

            “But we also have bills to pay in the real world, and unfortunately not all of us are privileged/wealthy ”

            Get the funk outta town if you’re trying to say that I’m wealthy, if any of us freebie folks necessarily are. The whole “what about the poors who depend on shilling content” thing has one gaping flaw in it -that flaw is that a better way of coping with poverty would be to actually…I don’t know…COPE WITH POVERTY instead of forcing people into selling imaginary trinkets for sweatshop wages.

            Anyone concerned with poverty …even enough to bring it up as some sort of smear directed at free content advocates…would do far, far better to put their energy into electing politicans in the REAL WORLD that will stop the constant unraveling of the social safety net which is a favorite past time of neo-liberals …both Democrats and Republicans).

            No one begrudges you (editorial ‘you’ -or maybe literal ‘you’ since I don’t know you from Adam) for selling content -until you whip-up hysteria about free content (the G+ articles, the HGB bs) and form cartels to push some half-baked IP agenda.

            That’s the point where you need to back up and follow your own advice about co-existence.

            ” Because they are not ideologues like you that are only capable of thinking in binary.”
            You’re basing that from what -the comments in this article? Seriously? Get the funk out with all that. I have written far more nuanced than you’re giving me credit for -but you’d actually have to have read me, over the course of time, to know that.

            So please, please stop the moronic drivel about what I am or am not capable of, k? thx

      5. 

         ‘sup Peter Velencia. 🙂 Yeah, I caught that you linked here from G+.

         You’ve accused me of being against commercial content *in general*; this is not true in opensim, nor secondlife.

         I am …and always will be… against ” rabid, authoritarian commercialism.” I’m happy to lend my dollars and my moral support to commercial merchants who act within ethical guidelines.

         But I make no apologies for calling out bad actors or bad actions -on either side (I’ve written against copybotting in the past, and it looks like I’ll have to again :().

         I will say that my assessment above was too pessimistic. Since writing that I’ve met and talked with people who are aware and do think on the level of idelogy -and probably won’t get sucked under. There’s more reason to hope than I thought -so yeah, on that level I was wrong.

         But as far as the nature of what’s going to happen, and the reasons why? I feel like I’ve been vindicated. Anyone who wants to, can ask me why …person to person. 🙂

10. 

    they are people like you who make a spectacular quality of our game … they are people who know how to share, I am sure that everyone who knows how to share supports the cause, because it is united that we will make a better and FREE game for everyone “opensim It’s open and free. “Everyone who supports raise their hands to victory 0// /0/ /

11. 

    If a creator does not want the creations to be missused, WHY THE F… checking the (transfer) box ???

12. 

    Told ya blogged and even setup a website devoted to this expose the facts dot com it’s been up for years. I almost stopped development on my jp collections company due to copybots

13. 

    Anyone who wants to read the exchange between Peter and myself can STILL see it -but you’ll have to go to G+ to do so.

    The HGB moderators …in their questionable wisdom… appear to have deleted both of our posts.

    Altho who knows -maybe it’s a glitch. I doubt it, but stranger things…

    Anyways, whether they pop back up or not doesn’t matter -it’s preserved on G+ for anyone who’s interested. 🙂

14. 

    Well at least HGB has toned it down from “alleged copybot to “iffy content”. I suppose that is progress of sorts. Having said that I must admit to feeling there is a degree of karmic justice to the subject matter.

    1. 

       plus-one for progress! 😀

15. 

    Reason you can not come to Lost World from Digi is the owner of digiworld has a dislike for Joe Builder and banned you and others from entering. Most from digi have other accounts in other grids and they visit with those accounts.

16. 

    Hi Carlos, yes you cant get in there with a DigiWorldz account. It is a matter between Joe and Terry. It is fairly common Knowledge regarding this

    1. 

       No I can´t, I tried several times and it keeps opening a message saying – Your World does not allow teleport bla bla bla

       1. 

          yup. Just the way it is Carlos.

          1. 

             Sorry, I misread your previous comment, I read you can and not you can´t, all cool, cheers

             1. 

                I tell ya all about it sometime 🙂