OSgrid halfway through third data recovery attempt

OSgrid has successfully recovered 1.9 terabytes, out of 3.5 terabytes total, grid president James Stallings II said during a conversation on OSgrid’s Internet Relay Chat channel yesterday. The conversation was reposted on OSgrid’s forums by grid administrator and OpenSim developer Allen Kerensky.

Stallings — who was posting under the user name “leTwitch” — did not say how much longer the recovery would take, or in what form OSgrid would be once it came back up.

Unlike smaller grids, which use mySQL databases for their assets, OSgrid uses a structured file system, he said. There are a total of 21 million files in OSgrid’s system that have to be recovered.

This is the third and last recovery attempt for OSgrid.

OSgrid's LBSA Plaza is the cross-roads of the hypergrid.

OSgrid’s LBSA Plaza is the cross-roads of the hypergrid.

The first two recovery attempts involved “partition cloning,” Stallings said.

“These completed successfully and tested out at recovery lab,” he said. “But when hooked up to our server still showed unrecoverable issues.”

Stallings added that the grid will be making some changes to its backup system, to avoid similar problems in the future.

“We’re discussing, for instance, a pair of asset servers in ‘hot and ready standby’ configuration — one writes everything written to it to the other,” he said.

“This would be hella simple to do with SRAs,” he said, referring to a storage technology known as Storage Replication Adapters. “I think we’ve reached that point. SRAs will be a part of what ever we do moving forward, though it might see some tweaking for effect.”

Lack of communication

In yesterday’s discussion, Stallings also addressed the grid’s communication issues.

“I wish people would stop saying there is no new information,” he said. “That’s just a lot of FUD. That is whats getting old, as I mentioned less than a week ago.”

In addition to the Internet Relay Chat channel, he also suggested that OSgrid residents can look to Twitter and Facebook for information.

However, OSgrid’s Twitter page hasn’t had a relevant update since mid-October. The grid’s home page just has that same Twitter feed.

OSgrid’s Facebook page has had two relevant updates — “Grid is currently offline, no ETA at this time. Sorry folks!” on August 18 and then a slightly longer note on November 4, saying: “Concerning the recent and longstanding problems with OSgrid, we’re basically continuing in a holding pattern until the first of the coming week, at which time if we don’t have our files recovered, we’ll be moving forward without them.”

A total of five updates have been posted on the OSgrid news page, the last one a copy-and-paste from an October 15 Internet Relay Chat channel conversation promising that “if nothing else, the end of the waiting will soon come to pass.”

When contacted by email today, Stallings declined to provide any additional information about the status of the latest recovery attempt.

There are updates less than one day old on the forums,” he told Hypergrid Business. “There is nothing more to know than what is to be found there.”

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Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China. Follow me on Twitter @MariaKorolov.

51 Responses

  1. oddball.otoole@gmail.com' Oddje Otoole says:

    “This is the third and last recovery attempt for OSgrid.”

    Last recovery attempt? I think it’s bye bye OSgrid.

    And then:

    “I wish people would stop saying there is no new information,” he said. “That’s just a lot of FUD. That is whats getting old, as I mentioned less than a week ago.”

    James seems to have a lot of ways to communicate with the users of his grid: The forums, twitter, facebook, IRC, pastebin (<= the OSgrid TOS is somewhere on a pastebin!!)
    And the normal users, are supposed to know where James is 'communicating' stuff…
    And if a user doesn't know what James is 'communicating', it's FUD…

    Yeah right!

    Bye OSgrid, was fun back then!

  2. arielle.popstar@gmail.com' Arielle says:

    almost 3 months of people asking for more information and you just realized that your words weren’t being spread around in places where people could find them?

  3. setexasrob@hotmail.com' Cathartes Aura says:

    OSgrid has been my home grid since spring 2009 when I started up my first region there. I’m looking forward to teleporting into my home again. For those of us who have up to date OAR and IAR files no worries. For those who don’t big worries. Good learning experience. I accept the fact that OSgrid is experimental and a test grid. And I understand the most important fact – it’s FREE. lol!! FREE to connect regions. Donations Voluntary (I donate).

    So, I can build/create as much as I want. No hassles or worries. And NO TIER. ; )

    Thank You James. And thanks to all the other fine folks working hard to get OSgrid back up!

    Some folks think this ole carrion eater ain’t nothin’ but a low down dirty dog… But I can be civil when I’m in the mood – see above. lol!! ; )

    And the Turkey Vulture goes hiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssss… ; )

    • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

      Agree with you Cathartes, all that negative comments are so annoying.
      Most people wait in patience and accepted that.
      Being an adult, one has the responsibility to take care of their own stuff.
      Ofcourse they should consider next time to get someone in the house who communicate better, sure, but if there is no news, there is just no news!

      Remember we are talking about 21 million files, what do you expect? That will not be solved in a day or two.
      These guys are doing a lot of effort to get our grid back, and mostly all for free, got that? FREE!
      Since we have seen not many people wan’t to pay for their use.
      I think it is a shame!
      Thumbs up for the OSG-team, because there are many out there, who don’t post negative thoughts but still waiting in patience to get back to their “Home” grid.

      • dharmagalaxy5555@gmail.com' Dharma Galaxy says:

        My negative comments are because I’m hoping someone else will step up and do for Opensim what someone did for Firestorm a year ago. That viewer went from being a lost cause to being the one to emulate. We need someone to do the same for Opensim.

  4. amy88smith@yahoo.com' Lani Global says:

    The OSgrid Forum is a fairly good information source for updates and discussion. http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5287

  5. geir.noklebye@dayturn.com' Geir Nøklebye says:

    One question needs to be asked, and here is a snippet from the chat log that was posted in the OSG Forums on Monday:

    10:44:04 AM) leTwitch: we store our assets as individual files
    (10:44:10 AM) BlueWall: leTwitch, are they getting the file structure back too?
    (10:44:31 AM) leTwitch: Blue, if they aren’t they’re wasting everyone’s time
    (10:45:30 AM) BlueWall: yeah, when you said the amt. of files I thought how would you ever be able to match them to the indexes in the database

    (10:48:37 AM) BlueWall: The assets database (pointers to the files) it that intact?
    (10:49:00 AM) leTwitch: BlueWall, I have no idea

    So from the above, and that has been my suspicion for quite some time, is that the database has disk (block) pointers for the asset files that, when restored to a new disk is written to completely different disk blocks with different pointers. So even if you manage to recover the files, you are out of luck in matching them with the pointers in the database?

    Has this not even been tested, and if not should it not be relatively easy to test this on a limited set of data before spending a lot of time and effort on restoring data that might not be useful at all?

    • orion@pseudospace.net' Orion Fhang says:

      @Gier – it would be awfully silly to tie database records to pointers that are proprietary to a specific disk. The source for the asset server they use is here: https://github.com/coyled/sras

      From the looks of the thing, its structured similarly to the Flotsam cache wherein it writes the assets out to a file and then stores the file path in the database.

      • geir.noklebye@dayturn.com' Geir Nøklebye says:

        I am sure that was the general idea of how it was supposed to work; question is how is the file path generated and does it survive restore to a different disk (block by block as I guess that is how they recover the disk.) – Even a file path points to raw disk blocks in the catalog file.

        I have seen this done before for performance because you can skip a layer in the disk access code when you need to read the file or record back, but unless there are proper backup routines in place it usually is unrecoverable if the disk goes.

        • orion@pseudospace.net' Orion Fhang says:

          It looks to be written in Ruby – which I’m afraid isn’t my native language (I’m a C# guy actually)… But a few snippets from their code:

          Asset writer – which appears to assemble the file and path name:
          asset_file_dir = asset.base_dir + ‘/’ + asset.sha256[0..2] + ‘/’ + asset.sha256[3..5]
          asset_file = asset_file_dir + ‘/’ + asset.sha256

          From what looks to be the asset object definition – where the path and file name are derived:
          property :id, String, :length => 36, :required => true, :key => true, :index => :id_sha256
          property :sha256, String, :length => 64, :required => true, :index => [ :sha256, :id_sha256 ]
          property :base_dir, String, :length => 64, :required => true,

          :default => Config.default_asset_dir

          It would seem that its working off of a base folder provided by the configuration and then assembling the file name and sub-path based off of the asset’s UUID. Pretty much the same schema as the Flotsam cache. 🙂

          The license for the above code is located here btw: https://github.com/coyled/sras/blob/master/LICENSE

  6. services@farworldz.com' Talla Adam says:

    I think it is kind of unfair to say put up and shut up which some close supporters of OSgrid admins are saying, especially as many are making donations still and want to see the grid back if only for the sake of Opensim testing and loyalty to the old work horse. What really bothers me though is that if this last recover attempt fails then J.S. will restart the grid with a blank database – something that could have been done anyway without the long wait and damage to Opensim’s reputation (There are people who seem to think Opensim is OSgrid!). Most people have OARs of their best work anyway so I don’t see why a restart could not have been entertained much sooner. I personally still want to support OSgrid but I can understand why others have had it. J. S. really is a tech head with no great interest in engaging the community – at least that is how it appears to many – and that is the reason for a lot of the complaints. Last year many were banned for voicing an opinion even and others just quietly left for Metropolis. But since the grid has been down a lot more have been forced to set up standalones or connect to Metro which does, at least, have a more democratic management style.

    There are serious questions that OSgrid management are avoiding so it is not surprising to me that J.S. dismisses it all as FUD. But why was there never a backup strategy in place anyway? However,
    It’s comforting to learn that this backup issue will be dealt with when and if OSgrid comes back but, really, why is the gate being closed after the horse has bolted?

    So, do the supporters of OSgrid have to go on just accepting what they are given without question?

    • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

      Talla, what you “want” from OSgrid, you will never get.
      You can’t compare Metropolisgrids with OSgrid.
      The first is a small social community, where one always feels being forced to be social, and that’s not everyone’s choice.
      The second is a testgrid, this is something Nebadon always have been said, where people have more freedom to go their own way.

      Last, why was there never a back up?
      Just because it was too much and Neb always told people to back up themselves, Oars and Iars. But no one listened!!

      All members of OSgrid are responsible for their own data, and that what always have been said.
      Most of them know, and most of them agree.
      If you don’t agree, then go to Metro, we don’ t need such complainers.

      For me personal, I see it all more positive, I just don’t care if I lost my stuff, I have it all on oars and a Iar.
      And besides of that, it gives me the opportunity to build new stuff.
      When I started at OSgrid 5 years ago, I had to do the same, because I left SL, where I was forced to leave my stuff there, for other reasons.

      During the time OSGrids is offline, I had fun with exploring other grids and found myself a second home at Littlefieldgrid, also a total different one then OSGrid, a small social community as well, and build there in peace at new projects.
      If one complains, one should solve it for themselve, and not stay complaining in circles all the time, that will not solve anything.
      Get yourself together and go on with positive things!

      • services@farworldz.com' Talla Adam says:

        Quote; “Talla, what you “want” from OSgrid, you will never get.”
        Avia, I absolutely agree with you on that.

        Quote; “You can’t compare Metropolisgrids with OSgrid.
        The first is a small social community, where one always feels being forced to be social, and that’s not everyone’s choice.”

        “forced to be social?” Okay. Look Avia, I don’t have an avatar or a sim at Metropolis but I have friends there and some of them were friends of mine at OSgrid before they left so I think I’m right in saying the folks at Metro would disagree with you. Metro is an open grid just the same as OSgrid was and relies on donations just the same. No one is under pressure to take part in the community or it’s decision making but they do welcome participation and that is the only real difference. OSgrid is run by a self appointed host who just happens to have gained control of the servers. And he is supported by a small inner circle of which I figure you are fully associated since you said…
        “All members of OSgrid are responsible for their own data, and that what always have been said. Most of them know, and most of them agree.
        If you don’t agree, then go to Metro, we don’ t need such complainers.”

        Since you presume to speak for what is left of the OSgrid community of which I have been part of for a long time too, and making a regular donation I might add, I don’t think you any right to tell me what to do unless, of course, you are in a position to have me banned which has already happened to many of those that left for, what else? “complaining” or as little as simply asking some questions on the OSG forum. Yes, so a ban is half expected.

        Finally, to quote you again, “Last, why was there never a back up?
        Just because it was too much and Neb always told people to back up themselves, Oars and Iars. But no one listened!!”

        So, after the asset server has already failed it’s okay to ask the community to donate thousands of $dollars extra to attempt a recovery repair but they never thought to ask the community to donate extra or mount an extended fund raiser before the event?

        Oh come on Avia! You are defending incompetence.

        And from what I read many of those that left wont ever return to OSgrid anyway because they just don’t see it as fit for purpose or safe to entrust data. Heck, the inventory service has been breaking down for the last two years! I know because I “complained” about it enough but mostly to myself in frustration, which, I guess is how you and your inner circle friends prefer it. That’s what I meant by “put up and shut up”.

        That all said I’m glad even you moved on, Avia and you’re happy working at the nice social community of Littlefield Grid which Walter had the good sense to move on to its own servers before the great crash. And yes, I feel very positive. I feel the rest of the Metaverse community has moved on to better things and given up yawning over OSgrid.

        • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

          I am glad to hear you are bothered Talla, since we know that already for two years and more people can read that here.
          You seem to love it to attack OSgrid all the time and are not capable to stop yourself in this.

          And no, I disagree with you, Metropolisgrid is a totally different grid than OSGrid, but one need to “see” that.
          I don’t have the intention to go in details again, we all know that already and it is not worth it to repeat that over and over again.

          Since you and your “friends” are having another opinion about this (which I am aware of all those years), it would only to be fair to only read the other side, which there is plenty.
          As I have learned, know your enemy!

          But in the same case as the warning of Osgrid about backing up, you don’t seem to listen.
          And yes I am totally aware for wat I am standing for.

          It is to OSgrid admin to decide what they communicate and if they is nothing to say, there is just nothing to say.

          Face the fact that it is not always going to be your way Talla.

          • services@farworldz.com' Talla Adam says:

            Oh well, I can tell you are pretty clueless and your just making it up as you go along but you need to get your facts right before you get down and personal, Avia…

            First, I’ve never been banned from OSgrid and I’ve been a big supporter of it in my time, writing positive blog articles about it and encouraging people to connect their first sim there to learn the basics. Even now I still make donations and I have a donation request banner posted to my blog and pinned to the top of Opensim Virtual at G+. I took a somewhat middle line on OSgrid although my loyalty is sorely tested now. Yes, I allowed people free speech at OV to express their discontent with the management of OSG last year because I believe in free speech. I did eventually curb that though and appealed to members let it go after it was obvious that a large part of the community had left and the management had closed ranks to protect their fiefdom.

            Going off topic to attack me personally for banning one or two people from Opensim Virtual which has grown into a very large community of Opensim users across many grids is just a weak attempt to discredit me but, really, it is hardly surprising that a tiny number of people, just two or three, have been very abusive which has got them banned after warnings got ignored. One has recently been reinstated even after he made a public apology and agreed to control his anger. What happened at OSgrid last year, which did not include me because I was not actually attacking OSG myself, was wholesale banning’s for no good reason other than questioning the management actions – something most right thinking people would call democracy. People should never be banned for that and I never would.

            You try to label me an enemy when you say “As I have learned, know your enemy!” which indicates a siege mentality brewing again around the inner circle and their leader but the truth be known you can’t win this argument and the strength of feeling expressed by many people who have unanswered questions is what fuels the debate. It’s not me. I still wish for better things from OSG while others wish it dead and buried. But no amount of unpleasant rhetoric on your part will change how a lot of people feel.

            All your attitude is saying to me is get lost because we, my inner circle friends and our leader, have all the control and your views are not wanted. It rather reminds me of George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” classic. A sorry tale indeed.

          • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

            Don’ t lie here Talla , we all know you as the one with the biggest mouth against OSgrid/Hiro all the time during the Exodus, you where the one who always was shouting against Hiro at the Plaza and even now again with the raidissues.

            So don’t play innocent to me, we all know that and many with me think it are the wrong reasons.
            If you really want to know the truth, ask at IRC instead of shouting and complaining here.
            Thing is, a lot of people outside your “group” don’t trust you because of this all and no, I am not making this up.

            Speaking about control is your cup of tea, that’s not where I am busy with.
            I have no leader, I really have a big laugh you have one, but I guess you try to treat me with that, which fails completely, I can tell you.

            And ofcourse I can shout here that there are more people outside who think different then you do, but what’s the use of that?
            If you had let yourself informed outside your group about OSGrid, you would have heard there are many people waiting in patience and don’t care if they are lost their stuff, because they think starting fresh is a good clean idea and they mostly have their oars and iars.

            Sure, the guys made a mistake (which they weren’t aware off), so weren’t other grids.

            Now you can blaim them, sure, or choose to stand beside them and think with them how to solve it, which seems to me a better idea.
            They will learn from that, and other grids will sail with them in the same boat because they don’t know it either.
            But do you really think OSGridadmins arent’ bothered by that?
            Do you really believe they don’t care?
            It has been their grid for many years, they are trying to solve it, and it seems to be a huge problem, as they communicated, and they did and still do a lot of effort to solve it all.

            And they did it not only for themselves,.

            No, they did it for us, the users!
            They have the responsibility to make their choices, so even it are not yours, respect that.

            Talking about banning, seems you took that very personal, but we all know OSG banned all people from Metropolis that time, because they were tired of your argues which didn’t bring you much further then pulling out the light of OSgrid for them.
            That it is changed now, says something about gridadmins who had the strenght to stand above you as complainers.

            I think, the real reason why you stop the communication here, is because you know you will not win this conversation just because I am not at your side.
            I will keep spreading the truth and try to protect people who are attacked here and am not going to let me stopped by you because you don’t like that.

            It is just a hobby Talla, it’s not your life!

            People make mistakes, but it seems you will not allow that, well, wake up!
            This happens everywhere and it is up to those what they will do with that or not, but it will not help to only sit back and complain.

          • services@farworldz.com' Talla Adam says:

            Okay Avia, you are clearly rattled and losing the plot now so, after trying to read and make sense of what you just wrote which is total rubbish, I will leave you to dig a big hole for your opinions with every word you utter. Carry on with your lies and illusions. You’re not worth any more of my time.

          • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

            Sure, because it is not your plot and that is what you wanted to hear.
            You just try to hide behind your lies, but who is going to believe you now?

      • arielle.popstar@gmail.com' Arielle says:

        With all due respect Avia, you missed the mark on several items in this latest post complaining about the complainers.
        Osgrid used to backup but there never was any public announcement that they were no longer doing so in spite of having sufficient funds in reserve to have purchased the necessary hardware. As you point out, Osgrid has always promoted that those who were able, should backup regularly….unfortunate they didn’t take their own advice thereby saving thousands of dollars in donation monies trying to recover lost data as well as the 3+ months downtime.

        Those voicing their opinions (the complainers) are mostly focused on the amount of time it is taking for Osgrid to come back up and its lack of communication about what is presently happening and its plans for future upgrades to prevent similar occurrences. Valid questions from people who wish to continue supporting the efforts of Opensimulator and its flagship testing grid, however you appear like Mr Stallings to relegate these concerns to being the ravings of malcontents. That is a shortsighted viewpoint that will ultimately affect the legitimacy as well as financial stability of Osgrid as a test grid.

        • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

          Arielle, you should be aware it’s not always going to be your way, face it!
          You could have asked Hiro or Neb personally if you are so curious, and why didn’t you?
          You are a full member of another grid, so I would say, leave OSgrid for what it is, because it seems to annoy you already for two years and why would you even bother that long?
          Think about that, it is a waste of your time, but seems you love to be stuck with it.

          • arielle.popstar@gmail.com' Arielle says:

            You likely would be surprised at how many former Osgridites are going through self-imposed exile while Hiro and Walter are pulling the Osgrid strings.

            The point you continue to miss in this is that Osgrid is an Opensimulator test grid. It solicits and accepts donations from the greater Opensimulator community for that very purpose. Justin CC has publicly posted that Opensimulator development has slowed and stopped in some areas because of the lack of there being an active testing grid for new code. That makes this Osgrid downtime an Opensimulator problem, not just an Osgrid one.

            Neb when asked at the Dev meetings about the Osgrid status, stated that he knew no more then anyone else and Hiro seems to be in hiding except on IRC once in a while, so a bit difficult to actually engage him when he isn’t talking.
            In any case you appear to be the latest iteration of a short line of famous personalities they have used in past to be their mouthpiece in various forums over the past couple of years. One can learn a lot about a man by the way they talk about their ex’es. 🙂

          • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

            Well, I am not surprised, because I am perhaps better and closer informed then you might know.
            Things is, I ask around and inform myself before I go shout and complain here and there.
            You will not gain anything with that.

            Second, I am clearly aware for years that OSgrid is a testgrid and thats exactly why people should not complain, but instead taking good care of their own stuff by backing up by themselves.
            And don’t make me laugh about donations, because not many people didn’t, they all want it for free and more, that’s a shame.
            At least I can say I always donated and I will when I go back, for sure,

            Seems people here don’t see the trees in the woods anymore, because of their hate against persons like Hiro, Neb and Walter.
            Hate will never gain anything.

            I might shock you to say that I even don’t know Hiro and Neb personally, but what I see here and in the past, it is that people are only busy attacking them and don’t even listen to the other side of the story.
            If you have questions, then go to the IRC.

            We all know they are there, so why wouldn’t you?

            Same happens with the Exodus last year.
            This is a good example of that.
            The whole conversation about the childavatar were misleads to whats was really going on; the change of management of Neb to Hiro, which some people like you, Talla and Eryn didn’t like, because you lost your influence.
            The more you shouted , the less people understood what the real problem was, and so they got blind for the real story.

            Anyway, the more we fight, the more I will spread the real truth, because that’s where I am standing for and the more people will understand what is really going on.

          • littlefieldgrid@gmail.com' Littlefield Grid says:

            Arielle, I have absolutely nothing to do with OSGrid, Hiro, Neb or anyone over there, so I’d appreciate it if you’d get your facts straight. I haven’t made one remark here about any of this and here you are badmouthing me again with no “real” facts or information at all. Why don’t you find someone else to attack for a change, it’s getting old. I have my own grid to contend with and I really could care less what goes on over at OSGrid other than I find it a valuable resource for the Opensimulator community, and if they asked for assistance, LFGrid would help them out.

          • arielle.popstar@gmail.com' Arielle says:

            I apologize then Walter as I was seeing Avia use thoughts and phrases you have used in the past and being that she is now a member of LFGrid AND you upvoted her posts here, it wasn’t a big stretch.

          • littlefieldgrid@gmail.com' Littlefield Grid says:

            Ah, so now agreeing with someone makes me an owner / operator at OSGrid? I think Hiro and Neb will be pretty surprised to find that out. And as for Avia being a member of my grid, we are very happy to have her there. She’s a wonderful creator, and has been doing something “positive” with the Burning Man display that involves many grids throughout the Hypergrid. My involvement with OSGrid is zero. We have no presence there and haven’t for a year and a half, everyone is well aware of it (well with the exception of you I suppose). We support OSGrid like anyone else in the Opensimulator community should, because they are the “test” grid for the Opensimulator software, and it benefits all of us when they are up and running. That is the extent of our involvement with them. You might try actually asking them rather than blurting out unwarranted attacks toward me and making claims that are not only false but absurd.

          • aviadezigns@gmail.com' Avia Bonne says:

            yes Arielle., and there is goes wrong.
            You think you know because I use the same words and phrases, well, that’s because I just think the same way as them, by my surprise…
            To be more clear, I am a member of Littlefield during the absence of OSgrid, and have been experiencing a very warm welcome, which decided me to stay there to work on the Burning Man project for them.
            I had to keep myself busy, right?

            So to be clear, I will go back to OSgrid to create there when it is online, and I will also stay at Littlefield grid to create there.
            I would do that for any grid, as I also did that in the past for Metropolis and Zetaworld, so if grids need help, I am there, no matter what people think about me.

  7. OSgrid is dead it just doesn’t realize it yet. It is unfortunate but that’s what happens when you don’t backup your system properly. Regardless, anyone who comes along to replace OSgrid will have to find a way to get donations or have a big
    corporate sponsor. Someone will likely come along to replace OSgrid, but
    more likely it will be under the guise of offering free connections
    only to charge for everything else or end up charging for the service
    later when a) they realize servers aren’t free or worse b) they intended to charge all along and baited people with freebies. Worse still advertising
    everywhere, a FB meets Virtual. A quality grid is built on affordably
    priced regions (in the $15-50 range) and people who want the grid to succeed as a social
    community and not just a profit generator.

    • sjatkins@mac.com' Samantha Atkins says:

      I would happily pay say $3 – $5 /month for a really good similar up-to-date opensim grid to hook my regions into. I don’t think I am alone in that.

  8. littlefieldgrid@gmail.com' Littlefield Grid says:

    Once again a quality thread to demonstrate the childish and hateful nature of alot of the people involved in the Opensimuator project. If you all want to depict Opensimulator as a bunch of bickering, backstabbing, hateful people, you are all doing a wonderful job. Everyone that we ran into at the OSCC was overly concerned with will Opensimulator have a place going forward and will it have the critical mass to survive (a topic I happened to be on a panel discussing). Frankly, if I was a new user, or an older user transitioning from SL to Opensimulator and saw the rantings and hateful posts on here, I’d think twice before I’d consider moving.

    • hanheld@yahoo.com' Han Held says:

      We don’t grow if we don’t criticize ourselves, Walter. Bad decisions have been made, bad policy has led to this downtime.

      Calling bad policy out, and suggesting change is a POSITIVE thing.

      Only people with ulterior motives demand blind, unthinking obedience, and only fools comply.

      • littlefieldgrid@gmail.com' Littlefield Grid says:

        There’s a difference between trolling and making intelligent commentary Han, but you know that already don’t you? Starting wild rumors about who is running OSGrid and continuing an old and tired war from a year and a half ago is trolling. Beating each other up rather than helping the grid who is comprised of alot more people than Hiro and Neb is also trolling. “Assisting” to make the right decisions is considerably more productive than what I’m seeing here.

        • hanheld@yahoo.com' Han Held says:

          I know that you throw around the word “trolling” to mis-characterize posts you disagree with. Which is a trait you share with Hiro, amusingly enough.

          With that fact in mind, “maybe what we need are more trolls under the bridge”; blind and unquestioning obedience has certainly gotten us nowhere.

          • littlefieldgrid@gmail.com' Littlefield Grid says:

            Han you are well known as the biggest troll in the VW community. Your banned virtually everywhere, and nobody really pays alot of mind to what you say. Comparing me to Hiro essentially just shows your incompetence and your ignorance, but that’s par for the course for you.

          • hanheld@yahoo.com' Han Held says:

            >Han you are well known as the biggest troll in the VW community. Your
            banned virtually everywhere, and nobody really pays alot of mind to what
            you say.

            Is that what people tell you? Well, one hears funny things when one only listens to sycophants. 🙂

            Anyways, since ..as usual… you’re unable to disagree without being disagreeable and you’ve turned this into an name calling contest; I am going to bow out for now.

  9. ron@harborite.com' Ron Brown says:

    wow! a lot of informative comments missing.. someone went heavy on the DEL button…. so sad…

  10. I believe that OSgrid will be back and I intend to be part of the OSgrid community when that happens because OSgrid plays a key role in the development of OpenSim. With that being said, I also intend to stay involved with the Grids that I have become involved with since the OSgrid crash.

    • trrlynn73@gmail.com' Minethere says:

      One of the cool things we can do in the free Metaversum is have backup plans [and backups] for contingencies…I think that is cool [ok, well, not as cool as hypergating, but still cool] hugsya hylee-))

  11. orion@pseudospace.net' Orion Fhang says:

    Uhm, we have HyperGrid folks! Centralized grids are obsolete now and even potentially
    dangerous if you’re allowing anyone to connect a self-hosted sim which in and of its own requires read/write access to sensitive grid
    services like assets and inventory.

    By this point I honestly don’t see the need for something like OSGrid beyond a test bed for the OpenSim devs or maybe as a public jump point into the HyperGrid.

    If you really want to run your own sim, wouldn’t it make more sense to just assume full control over your content and creations by configuring your setup to run in HyperGrid mode? Or even better, just switch over to something like the Diva Distro. Heck, isn’t that what OpenSim is all about? A system that allows us to take full control and responsibility over the things we create?

    If OSGrid wants to rebuild and remain useful as a foster of the community then allow public registration, bring the plazas back online, and cobble together a centralized search service that sims out on the HyperGrid can register with and use.

    • hanheld@yahoo.com' Han Held says:

      Historically, OSGrid and Inworldz served as an introduction to opensimulator for people stepping outside of SL for the first time.

      OSGrid could play a valuable role in helping people to learn the software and to guide them as they set up grids of their own -but they won’t (apart from ad-hoc catch-as-catch-can conversations on lbsa), which is sadly a lost opportunity.