Grids face mesh issue in next OpenSim release

OpenSim developers are getting ready to release OpenSim 0.9.0, and some grids are already experimenting with the new features by downloading the experimental version of the new release — and they are running into some problems.

The problem is specific to grids using the new ubOde physics engine, which is included as an optional feature. However, this engine takes a slightly different approach to mesh objects, specifically, objects that you can walk through like doorways and caves.

Josh Boam

Josh Boam

“The mesh problem is huge and plagues us now,” said Josh Boam, founder owner of the SkyLife grid and hosting company. As a workaround, he said, the physics setting on the meshes is set to “none” and transparent prim objects are added if walls, floors, or other physical elements are needed.

One commercial grid owner, who did not want to be quoted by name, said that there are too many problems with the current release of OpenSim and not enough developers working to fix them. “We won’t be spending time on getting things to work with 0.9.0 before it is an actual viable alternative,” the grid owner told Hypergrid Business. The major problem was last year’s infusion of a large amount of code from Avination, the code where most of the new improvements to OpenSim, including support for the ubOde physics engine, originated. “The way the code was thrown into the codebase was very contentious… My recommendation for grid owners is to stick with OpenSim”

DigiWorldz founder Terry Ford, also known as Butch Arnold in-world, is also sticking with the current release.

Terry Ford

Terry Ford

“The fact remains, while there are some nice improvements in the 9.0 code, it is far too buggy compared with what I’m used to with 8.2 code,” he said in a comment posted earlier today. “And I don’t have a team of developers to bring it to a point where I am comfortable running it. It would be a support nightmare for me and I simply don’t have the resources to handle that.”

One alternative could be the Halcyon fork of OpenSim, which the U.S. Army’s MOSES grid recently switched to.

“If the Halcyon code was hypergrid-capable in some form, I’d switch to the Halcyon fork tomorrow,” Ford wrote.

The hypergrid allows users from one grid to teleport to another grid, to make friends on other grids, to go shopping there, to join groups, and to send messages to other users throughout the metaverse. Currently, 79 percent of OpenSim’s public grids are hypergrid-enabled. The hypergrid accounts for 78 percent of OpenSim’s active users and 94 percent of its land area, according to the latest Hypergrid Business statistics. Since MOSES is a security-conscious government-owned grid, hypergrid support is not currently a priority, but is in its longer-term development plans.

ZetaWorlds has also run into the mesh issue with the new experimental release. ZetaWorlds is an open grid, operated and hosted by Zetamex, and has already upgraded areas of the grid — but it hasn’t always worked out perfectly.

“We had to revert some regions back because they had a cavern system with meshes,” Zetamex spokesman Timothy Rogers told Hypergrid Business. Users were not able to walk into the caves, he said.

He warned other grid owners to check with their users before upgrading, especially if they plan to use the new physics engine.

“Let’s face it — we’re filled with mesh now,” he said. “Don’t switch to ubOde unless you warn your customers in advance that some of the mesh might break.”

The welcome region on Mobius Grid. (Image courtesy Mobius Grid.)

The welcome region on Mobius Grid. (Image courtesy Mobius Grid.)

Mobius Grid, a Zetamex customer, has also upgraded to OpenSim 0.9.0.

“The welcome hub we just replaced had to be re-uploaded as well as our mesh palm trees,” Shawn Corr told Hypergrid Business. He is also known as Serra Royale in-world.

Both Corr and Rogers were guests on Inworld Review Sunday afternoon and discussed the new OpenSim release, among other topics.

Have them re-upload

Some users tried to contact the OpenSim development team to find out if there was a fix to the problem, and were told that the meshes had to be re-uploaded.

“That answer isn’t going to fly with a lot of people,” said Rogers.

Complex builds, for example, can involve many meshes and re-uploading them and re-installing them into the build can be extremely difficult and time-consuming.

This narrow steel bridge is all mesh. (Image courtesy Xmir grid.)

This narrow steel bridge is all mesh. (Image courtesy Xmir grid.)

And if the user didn’t upload the original mesh themselves, but received it from another user or purchased it, the problem becomes even more difficult.

Plus, a mesh uploaded with ubOde may not work with the earlier Bullet and ODE physics engines.

“As a merchant, do you really want to go out and make different copies for the different physics engines?” said Rogers.

However, OpenSim developer team spokesperson Melanie Thielker says that meshes uploaded with the new engine should work with the older physics engines.

“There is no known case of a mesh made with a physics mesh not working in older physics engines,” she told Hypergrid Business. “So it’s wrong to hold off on creating meshes the right way as in the future all new engines that may come out will require a physics mesh.”

The biggest seller of mesh-based landscaping objects on the hypergrid today is the Worlds End Landscaping & Roleplay store on the Kitely Market, which delivers to more than 150 different OpenSim grids.

“So far only a few people have come to me with this issue, usually relating to door frames on houses,” store owner Ozwell Wayfarer told Hypergrid Business. “I advise to un-link and make phantom. Obviously, that’s not practical for things like caves, but I have yet to receive any issues or complains in that area.”

“If the new physics do indeed become the new standard, I will of course update my products,” he added. “But so far as I know, right now 0.9.0 is experimental and development is ongoing.”

Meanwhile, he has added a disclaimer to his product listings, warning buyers to contact grid administrators and check if their grid is running OpenSim 0.9.0 and is using the ubOde physics engine before making a purchase.

Kitely itself is currently running the recommended version of OpenSim on its grid, and will wait before upgrading to 0.9.0, CEO Ilan Tocher told Hypergrid Business.

Benefits of the new release

For many users, the advantages of the new release of OpenSim will outweight the problems with meshes — or they will simply opt not to use the new ubOde physics engine but stick with the older Bullet and ODE physics engine options.

“We’ve been using 0.9 since it was stable enough in Zetamex’s eyes for general use,” said Mobius Grid’s Corr. “We’ve been on it for several months and ubOde, while not fully complete yet in OpenSim, is amazing. All the vehicles my staff made while we were in Second Life work out of the box now, and are mostly the same. It seems our biplane flies even better on ubOde than it does in Second Life.”

And the choice of physics engine doesn’t make a difference for many mesh objects, he added.

“I wear a mesh coat from the Kitely Market from the store Dadiella’s and it was not affected as it is a worn item,” he said.

OpenSim 0.9.0 has other advantages besides being able to choose the new physics engine.

For example, there is support for some newer LSL functions, Corr said. “My animation overrider uses llSetAnimationOverRide which was not in Opensim 0.8.2 and older. My advice really is if grid trusts their hosts and on-staff developers — go for it.”

OSgrid's LBSA Plaza is the cross-roads of the hypergrid and a popular virtual hangout for developers, region owners, and metaverse travelers.

OSgrid’s LBSA Plaza is the cross-roads of the hypergrid and a popular virtual hangout for developers, region owners, and metaverse travelers.

Another grid that’s already running OpenSim 0.9.0 is the non-profit OSgrid, OpenSim’s largest and oldest world. That’s not a surprise, since one of the primary purposes of OSgrid is to be a testing grid for the software.

Region owners can download the pre-configured OSgrid version here.

“ubOde physics is a major addition, and with ubOde enabled you’ll see a lot more Second Life-type vehicle physics, vehicle border crossing, Land Impact, sitting on unscripted prims, parcel privacy, and so on,” said OSgrid president Dan Banner.

Today, grids that want to reduce region crossing issues, especially for vehicles such as boats or planes, use variable-sized regions that have no internal border crossings at all. The new OpenSim release makes those crossings smoother even between standard regions.

“A lot of people are switching over to it because it has a lot of advantages,” said Zetamex’ Rogers. “Velocity actually works in it now. We think it’s pretty stable.”

No mesh fix in the works

While some grid owners may be hoping that developers will fix the mesh problem so that ubOde can work without re-uploading the mesh objects, it may be a long wait.

Melanie Thielker

Melanie Thielker

“Making these broken meshes work would be to perpetuate a bug, not a fix,” said OpenSim spokesperson Melanie Thielker. She is also the owner and founder of the commercial Avination grid, which has now been down for almost three months because of a migration to a new data center.

“It’s not really doable without disabling the use of efficient mesh forever,” she said. “It’s really a case of looking either forward or back and code can’t accommodate both old, broken meshes and new, efficient ones.”

The approach used by current physics engines, such as the default ODE engine, can overload the servers, she said.

“Re-uploading of an optimized physics mesh is the recommended solution,” she added.

In addition to re-uploading the meshes, another option is to set the problem areas to “phantom” so that people can walk through them, or change other settings.

“They can set the collision type to ‘convex,’ which will make many of the old meshes work somewhat, they can set the
collision type to “none” and build a basic collision shape from invisible prims — that works well for houses in particular,” she said. “Or they can see it as an opportunity to redecorate with new, efficient mesh.”

And for purchased items?

“In cases where people have purchased broken mesh, they need to complain to the seller and get them to re-upload,” she said.

But it’s worth it, Thielker said.

“The benefits that ubODE brings are really too great to pass up,” she said.'

Maria Korolov

Maria Korolov is editor and publisher of Hypergrid Business. She has been a journalist for more than twenty years and has worked for the Chicago Tribune, Reuters, and Computerworld and has reported from over a dozen countries, including Russia and China.

  • Da Hayward

    Well we are using both UBODE and 0,9,0 and although there are some glitches Genesis seem to be getting a handle on it. Some mesh just wont load no matter what system you are using. One cannot make an omelette with out breaking eggs.Even the Apollo moon mission’s had glitches along the way

  • Han Held

    I know I’m sticking to, personally. JCC made a ton of
    optimizations for OSCC in 2013 and my understanding is that the
    avination merge threw most, if not all of them out. When I tried 0.9 in
    March it took a lot more resources, too. I wouldn’t think of using 0.9 until it proves itself in a large event with a comparable number of people to OSCC, and even then I’d have to look at it’s resource usage compared to

    A higher version number doesn’t always mean a better product.

    • Da Hayward

      I’m thinking we will stick with 0.9.0 for time being, Genesis with a little effort seem to be sorting the little nuisances out in it one by one

    • 1derworld

      If it isn’t broke, Don’t FIX IT.

  • Waki Janus

    Wow! This seems a bit a bit old hat to be running with a 9/27 byline. DreamNation has been running OS 0.9 now for 3 months. ODE physics is fantastic. Of course we have an advantage in having one of the original coders here with us. But, we have better physics and working vehicles than I think even SL has. Mesh if badly imported is a problem. But much of the problems result from original lazy reporting. Our only complaint really is that OS 0.9 development team ignores our questions, comments and suggestions, which is sad as we were already using a lot of the code dropped into the new OS 0.9.

    • I’m running the story now because Melanie tells me that the official release is due out very soon.

      She didn’t have an exact date for the release, but said: ” I will be doing some more testing and Diva has said she will also have some time. We are definitely planning one shortly.”

      • Da Hayward

        and it is a great article maria. like a few on here as I said we have had no real issues with 0.9.0 and uBODE works more than fantastic for us.
        Thanks for the great article

      • Waki Janus

        Well if you run another story Maria, please ask me for comment. DreamNation has on the whole nothing but praise for 0.9 and the work Melanie and her team have done on it. ODE physics is vastly superior to anything SL is running.

  • SkyLifeGrid

    I have ran 0.9 For ages Even AviWorlds was using it .. The ability to drag and drop most secondlife vehicle scripts is what did it for me..

    My Boats work just like they do if not better as in secondlife now!. The Workaround for mesh is not a problem as in Secondlife it is similar in nature.
    We uploaded the mesh and then uploaded a physical mesh layer that would act as collisions for walking. Most people use transparent prims for floors ect . So this is not much of a problem for most current developers as we already have ways around this issue. I am extremely excited in this but the only thing that keeps me from finishing my 100+ boats for sale is that the majority of grids are still using Bullet and all my products use Ubode so we are at a catch, do I spend the time scripting all my products for one engine ? I really am hoping that the new Ubode will be official and soon!

    • 1derworld

      To be the top dog one has to be able to use both. Using SL scripts is fine but for Vehicles not so much. Ubode can use the older ODE scripts and they work perfectly if one knows how to do it. MY boats are extremely fast. My planes fly very well, And not to mention the cars. Copy/Paste from SL is not always the right choice as the many many videos i have shown in the past.

      • Da Hayward

        good answer. Although I by no means am a scripter, I know with our planes that the scripts from sl can’t just be copied and pasted. The scripts in the aircraft have been adjusted to work with uBODe. Once this is done the aircraft seem to work fine and in a lot of cases better than in sl. so logic would suggest the same could be said for ODE scripts

  • Zoe Emiko

    “And for purchased items? In cases where people have purchased broken mesh, they need to complain to the seller and get them to re-upload.”
    As a creator I can answer that in two words – absolutely not. I am willing to note if my items are Ode compatible or not but that’s as far as I’ll go.
    I will note when a new item is built for Ode but I won’t go backward and remake/replace everything.

    To even suggest that reuploading is all it would take to remake most items is an incredibly huge.. massive.. understatement which leaves out rebuilding/rescripting/reanimating/retexturing then to follow that with suggesting the customers complain to a seller to arm twist them to replace an item with a remade one because it’s “broken mesh” as a viable option to the customer base shows an utter lack of consideration for creators. I admit I was so utterly floored I had to go back and reread several times to make sure I’d understood what was being said correctly.

    An apt analogy would be when new versions of windows are released which render old software unusable those software developers don’t hand out new versions gratis. They develop and make available for purchase the new versions which will work with the new ops.

    Perhaps the end solution will be there will be grids which cater to Ode for the better vehicle operations and grids that cater to their resident base who wish to use the inventory they’d already purchased.

    • It your mesh creations were uploaded with physics models as they should be to the Kitely Marketplace, they should work everywhere. Animated meshes such as avatars shall not have physics models anyway. They will be set to phantom when worn. The avatar itself has a physics model built into the physics engine.

      There is one twist with ubODE and that is physics models must be two sided. Some creators have used a one sided plane as the collision surface and it will only collide on that side, while you can walk through / fall trough the other direction.

  • Shy Robbiani

    About 18 months ago the Avination contribution has been announced as a great gift. Where are we now? If things are not like Melanie wants them to be, she calls them “broken”. RLV never got fixed for the same reason, she called the viewers code broken.

  • Carlos Loff

    I dont understand one thing here – If a huge main functional issue (mesh) will get problematic, how will there be a release ??? Why get a new car if the gas deposit has many chances of exploding ??? Mesh is not a small colateral detail

    • Carlos Loff

      I dont want OS to become a place where we spend days and days nad days creating, building and laying out contents and afterwards evety now and then we have to go back and fix it all – I want to know with what I can count on – I know Im just a user but it is for users that this viewers are done, not for devs – Plead add features, do not subtract, some folks here have long time projects

      • Da Hayward

        hi carlos we haven’t really had a great issue with mesh, some mesh sourced from various sites have caused problems but it has been more of the model it self and not the system.

        • Carlos Loff

          Glad to hear it, I do not mind to avoid using Mesh I just need yto know if that is the strategy or not, cheers – Anyway I trust Buch Arnold knows what he is doing when he updates the grid

    • 0.9 supports both the old physics engines ODE and Bulletsim. So here everything will work as before.
      For ubODE to work properly it requires that a proper physics model for the mesh exist. This is no problem for serious creator meshes, but a mesh just uploaded from an arbitrary source will default to a convex shape physics model and cannot be walked into (most likely) as an example.

      This is a creator / source issue and not a physics engine issue.

      • Justin Time

        You are quite right XMIR Grid, But…

        Here is another problem, and not just with existing resident mesh projects.
        Many grids offer freebies, some (many) are mesh models. Some are good, some are cheap copies.
        Since you are a grid operator, you know people import all kinds of freebies from the Metaverse every day.
        What happens with imported bad mesh that blows up and becomes invisible?
        The importer has no idea what happened to it and may make several more attempts to redeem it.
        The next thing you know your server response is severely lagging and there are hundreds if not thousands of errors showing up on your console. Most every grid owner deals with this in their own way.
        ubODE will only exacerbate a known issue.

        • As long as the items that have issues are logged, you can always clear them out of the database, although time consuming if many.

          If rezzed, even an invisible mesh can usually be found in tools such as the viewer Area search by the owner, and cleared out of the scene.

          • Justin Time

            “As long as the items that have issues are logged, you can always clear them out of the database, although time consuming if many.”

            exactly my point!

  • Dan

    Interesting article with helpful feedback.

  • 1derworld

    I use both 8.2 and 0.9 Never ever a issue with Mesh and the physics. Just need to do the Mesh a bit different with 0.9 is all. People will cry no matter what.

  • Da Hayward

    thanks Alex.

  • Great article Maria and thanks for asking my opinion on the matter.

    It is a very sticky issue. Especially for merchants. But right now as I mentioned, while things are still up in the air I think the best strategy is to wait and see. A number of things could happen at this point.

    1 – The new physics could be accepted and adopted by the community with little problem. At this point, updating products would seem a valid course of action.

    2 – The amount of broken content could cause a backlash among users and grid owners who either quit or refuse to upgrade. Physics are then reverted in a following release and all product update work is rendered pointless.

    3 – The physics are adopted but with enough community backlash physics are reviewed again and the system changes AGAIN before the 1.0 release. Making all updated products also obsolete.

    So right now as a merchant, there is so much uncertainty as to how this will play out to make any kind of business critical move. it may also be the case that none of my products need a major update, as I upload custom physics models for all but the most basic things. At this point I dont have enough data to know.

    There is also a rather sticky customer service issue to consider. Say a grid owner upgrades to 0,9 without telling users and causes some of my content to break. Is that my fault? Or the grid owners? Theres no easy answer to that one.

    • Da Hayward

      If I grid owner upgrades to 0.9 I would see it as the grid owners responsibility to inform his/her resident’s. I for one would not blame or throw the responsibility back on the creator in such a scenario. Also A responsible grid owner would also inform their creators of such a change.

    • I happen to be the customer of Zetaworlds who initially encountered the problem with mesh and ubODE, and it was very specifically content from Kitely vendors that drew attention – Especially the excellent cavern kit from World’s End, which was rendered completely useless until Tim reverted us back to Bullet. We’ve been on 0.9 using Bullet for months and there are many things I really like about it, most importantly that varsim crossings are much improved, although some improvements (NPC support comes to mind) seem like it was fixing a problem that didn’t need fixing. The reason I never provided feedback to the vendors was we knew far too little about the source of the problem at the time and until I actually have a reproducible phenomenon with an explanation I don’t like sending people on pointless chases. The issue isn’t 0.9, it’s which physics engine you introduce. For a new sim, maybe go for it. For a sim with many months of development behind it, maybe just stick to Bullet.

      • Hi Paul 🙂 sorry to hear you had issues. As soon as Kitely switches over to 0.9 i can look into fixing it.

        It seems some objects with holes cut into them have been broken. That means I need to update the caves and some houses. Luckily its not a lot of my stuff.

        • Ozwell, no need to be sorry. 🙂 I’m going to put up a ubODE 0.9 dev sim on Zetaworlds at some point so I can start to comprehensively test my not-insignificant inventory. At least in this discussion thread, some useful nuggets of information were divulged. Your content is in no way the only stuff on Kitely that is affected, and given that Kitely isn’t running that environment there isn’t really a way for creators there to have known. I agree with Da Hayward below, blaming creators for being unable to predict the future is rather pointless.

  • Seth Nygard

    While the differences between how ubODE and Bullet handle meshes can be a big problem for some objects. And while I agree that propagating what is perceived by some to be an error is not a good idea. I must say that this mesh issue is going to be an ongoing issue that should have had the input of the greater community as to what was the proper course to take. Sometimes there is a need to keep a “bug” to ensure backwards compatibility. This is one case where I don’t think the true impact has been considered or has simply been disregarded as invalid.

    The major issue with mesh under 0.9 and ubODE is it absolute requirement for a physics (collision) mesh to be defined. If a physics (collision) mesh is not defined then a simple convex-hull will be used or the mesh must be made phantom and prims or other mesh objects are needed to provide these collision surfaces. As was already pointed out, the direction normals are pointing also has an impact on the behaviour of this physics (collision) mesh that differs from Bullet as well as SL. Last Christmas I spent some time with Ubit to test and explain these issues and he did implement a partial solution so that many buildings will work regardless of the direction of the normals.

    Even with Bullet I have been a big proponent of creators making a proper physics (collision) mesh and using that during upload. This is simply good practice and gives you much better control over the end product. It is standard practice for any game engine. The fact that Bullet would fall-back to the visual mesh in the absence of a physics (collision) mesh is where the problem comes from. That visual mesh results in a much higher impact on the physics calculations than a more optimized collision mesh would. This is what was determined to be bad when ubODE was being added and is not done by ubODE.

    Issues and differences with 0.9 and ubODE are not limited to mesh. While 0.9 and ubODE claims better SL compatibility that is not always true. Just being able to use the same physical vehicle script brought over from SL may sound good there are some other very big differences with scripts. Most scripts that I have looked at and help others improve for OpenSim require changes to minimize the impact on simulators due to weaknesses in our script engine. While this is not unique to 0.9 or ubODE the claim of SL compatibility makes this a bigger concern.

    I will also add that ubODE appears to use more CPU resources as compared to Bullet. It also can not be ran in a separate thread which increases its impact on the simulator when under heavy load. Additionally it is possible to achieve very good performance with Bullet if you script for it properly.

    Creators will also encounter differences with sit positions, NPCs, and various other things commonly used that will take to work around. In some cases it will be necessary to provide different scripts based on the simulator where it is going to be used.

    I like some of what I have seen in 0.9, and don’t like other parts. My biggest problem overall is that 0.9 is not an evolutionary update from 0.8.2, but could be better described as a new fork. The sheer volume of changes, some of which are regressions, makes proper testing and validation almost impossible. Things that were “fixed” in 0.8.2 may not be the same in 0.9 and many cases these make it even harder to determine what is a bug or simply a new feature. The lack of detailed and up to date documentation once again compounds this process.

    I do keep up to date and test with 0.9 but have no plans to deploy it on Refuge Grid until such time as it has been adequately proven and vetted.

  • Da Hayward

    maybe there is other reasons she is moving to a new data center.
    She strikes me as a pretty clued up person
    Not necessarily anything to do with mesh

  • SkyLifeGrid

    Another stab ? We both know this is a joke. We are currently running 5 grids and not too bad I must say the team I have is superior to none and am very greatfull for the help. We all have our talents. I have been building content since 2008. I recently got into the code and hosting aspects about 4 years ago. I have learned an untold amount of info since then and I like to think I know what I’m doing thanks Why you talk about me with opensim where is AviWorlds. Why wait until summer time ?

    • Alex Ferraris

      No it is not a stab. I m just saying the truth. And the reason I had to seek outside help for the search module and classifieds and other problems was due to your limited knowledge in php and other stuff. You did not fix mesh in AviWorlds and I was the one who searched and found instructions to help our residents. Simple truth no stab.

    • *cough*
      You said…
      I must say the team I have is superior to none and am very greatfull for the help.

      So you’re saying your team is not superior to any other team? lol
      Not a real confidence boost for them there.
      I think you meant “Second to none”?

      • SkyLifeGrid

        Fixed 🙂

      • i always said that the DigiWorldz team is the best and i still stand by that.

  • Note that the default physics engine in OpenSim 0.8.x and 0.9.0 dev versions is actually Bullet, not ODE or ubODE. So an explicit change to a different physics engine will be required if grids wish to elect to use ubODE when 0.9.0 is properly released as the next stable version.

  • Melanie usually don’t support changes that leads to grid downtime, such as large database migrations.

    I agree with her statement it would be to perpetuate a bug.

  • SkyLifeGrid

    This fix does not work Alex nice thought but when the item hits ubode its calculations of mesh are rendered and will break the objects. Tested with AviWorlds and proven to not work

    • SkyLifeGrid

      btw where is AviWorlds Mr.AviWorlds?

    • Alex Ferraris

      Well it did work for me and many creators. By the way u Josh are using aviworlds shopping mall 1 and 2 . full of creations that are not yours. Please take those regions down. The content is not yours and u have no authorization from me and from all the creators who had stores on those regions.

      • lmpierce

        This kind of request is off-topic. Further off-topic comments will be deleted.

      • SkyLifeGrid

        We are not using anything of yours. My shopping 1 and 2 are Linda Kelly’s and nothing to do with you. You need stop this before I call the NYPD on you Alex

      • SkyLifeGrid

        Your stabs are harassment and I’ll not be having this we are so over Aviworlds it’s not even funny so quit trying to keep your drama alive

  • Alex Ferraris

    Good Josh I guess my plan worked. 🙂

    • SkyLifeGrid

      Your plan ? what the evil one that was to acquire everyone’s money from them and then shut everything down and say Hahaha sorry but your all screwed and nothing you can do about it See I have a tos See! Muhahahaha Feed It Feed Me!

  • 1derworld

    Not sure you left cloudserve according to cloudserve.

    • SkyLifeGrid

      Boy you and Alex should become best friends JOE Builder!

      • 1derworld

        Pointing out the facts is all. And correcting your errors JOSH BOAM 🙂

  • Alex Ferraris

    Happy for you Josh. Make sure to answer your new customers emails e help requests in a timely manner and u will be alright.

    • 1derworld

      That’s asking alot

  • Da Hayward

    Oh i know Joe sparrow. He is one individual and his side kick Mal who will not be welcome at Kea.

    • As I am more aware about you then you’d like me to be. I’d advise you to not try to not be like that. They really don’t care what you do anymore. Let the past be in the past. Leave your issues with them on SL as they are doing the same when they are on Mobius and other grids.

      • Da Hayward

        i dont think you are but that does not matter this is open sim not sl so why post a sl market place link.
        Actually Joes astral tek group has a lot of good people in it & as you said he can build when he puts his mind to it.
        But what does he have to do with topic?

        • He made the planes I mentioned in the article and is making our combat system for us

          • Da Hayward

            ok. fair enough.
            my apologies to you.
            we also have an aircraft creator.

          • That is fine. I’m just someone who likes past issues in the past. Apologies if I came off a little aggressive. I am just blunt. But Hypergrid business does cover SL stuff as well. And I been talking to him about him possibly selling on the Kitely Market and on Mobius.

          • Da Hayward

            One thing I have noticed with SL creators they are hesitant to come to OS, be it because of market size or just holding out in sl for loyalty I don’t know. We use ubode physics and 0.9.0 on our linked VARs and are also developiing a combat system. So good luck with getting him to sell there. The more the merrier

  • Da Hayward

    One thing I do believe in regards to this topic is that OS just like SL is full of some very talented people and creators. I an sure given time no matter what physics or OS version being used the creators will be able to work with whichever applies to them on which ever grid they are.
    We often talk about problems but seldom call them opportunities

  • Waki Janus

    Way down there somewhere I was rather supportive of 0.9. I still am. There whole lot of things that are vast improvements especially ubODE. However DreamNation, which has deployed 0.9 for nearly five months now, is running into issues with new patches and fixes. Grid and Region stability has become an increasing problem for us, and it has nothing to do with importation of bad mesh or sim overload. We can barely keep our regions up for an hour or more. If it is true that the OS Developers are thinking of putting out the stable release, then they better start thinking again. There are now serious problems with OS 0.9 that have nothing to do with Mesh or UBODE physics.

  • Justin Time

    “If the new physics do indeed become the new standard, I will of course update my products,” he added. “But so far as I know, right now 0.9.0 is experimental and development is ongoing.”

    Has everyone forgotten the fact that Opensimulator v08.2 was and still is BETA? Opensimulator any version is experimental.
    The code is open source ( just happens to be freeware too) and available for download from many sources. Opensimulator code structure must be used with an element of distrust on any computer. Not that the code is harmful, but more that the code is unreliable under backward compatibility with older versions, unreliable with some hardware configurations, and unreliable for commercial application. That being said, there is little to embrace other than you got what you paid for.

    Understanding the code, the language, and most importantly the history of the code is too much to grasp for many new users. Even professionals are somewhat daunted by the archaic complexity and severe lack of change and often cryptic notes in the source.

    At one time in the not so distant past, one Saturday per month was test day for new code in OSG. When was the last time you attended such a test if ever? Maybe you never knew about them, but at one time test day was well received and enjoyed with great participation. Those days are all but a memory now.

    The bottom line here is, never incorporate new Opensimulator code into an existing working configuration and especially if you have modified your code to work for your specific needs. If you do not understand what database migration means, stop right there and test the code on an empty server first, which is what you should be doing any time you introduce new code.

  • Justin Time

    @Melanie Thielker

    What needs to be “fixed” is NOT the Opensimulator code. It is the engine used to import mesh which is currently v1.4 and so far out of date that it is silly. There are no plans by the developers (if you can still find them all) to update the code, ever. Unfortunately that same engine is built into any viewer that is mesh enabled.

    The bottom line is, the problem is in the viewer, not the Opensimulator code.

    • Cinder Biscuits

      There is no “engine version” 1.4. COLLADA 1.4 is a technical spec. What exactly is in COLLADA 1.5 that you think would fix this? breps? They are no longer in COLLADA format once they’re on the server. That’s why the version change breaks them and reuploading fixes them. It’s work done on the server side. The viewer and the COLLADA spec version have nothing to do with it.

      By the way, 1.5 is only two years newer than 1.4.0.